Hotchkis Chassis Max Handle Bars

[marc_b]

anyone use the Hotchkis Chassis Max Handle Bars. notice any change, good/bad? Want to stiffen the chassis up more with out having to install a roll cage since my kids will cruise with me sometimes.


http://www.hotchkis.net/197081_camar...ndle_bars.html

[LowBuckX]

made my own along time ago and they work good. Mine triangulate at the firewall

[Lowend]

On a 2nd gen, bars of those type are key in control chassis flex.
A 1st gen has very similar chassis so I would expect similar results.

They look like updated versions of the old Herb Adams' VSE stuff

[noobwrench]

Those are $100 more than PTFB's : http://www.pro-touringf-body.com/cha...omponents.html and look to be substantially weaker. Hotchkis dropped the ball again...

[Taylor1969]

Those are $100 more than PTFB's : http://www.pro-touringf-body.com/cha...omponents.html and look to be substantially weaker. Hotchkis dropped the ball again...

Doesn't look like this company sells them for the 67-69 Camaros

[noobwrench]

Doesn't look like this company sells them for the 67-69 Camaros

Sorry, saw the second gen as his avatar, and knew that they just game out with knock-offs of PTFB's units. If theyre rip-offs of the Herb Adams ones, then they work. I have plans somewhere for the first gen ones, if you ever wanted to fab them up yourself.

[Lowend]

Not exactly rip-offs of Herb Adams... Dave made some improvements to the design and moved the lower mounting point

[Hotchkis]

We're not ripping anyone off, except maybe GM. Basically every successful F-body road race car has had some form of support bar. The Donohue camaro had braces that looked a little different but did basically the same thing. Mary and David Pozzi also have similar bars on their 2nd Gen. They work well, so we tried three different designs until we found one that was easy to install and worked really well. They make a big difference in the way the car handles, especially on the autocross. If you like 'em, great. If not, that's ok too.

If you have a welder and the skills, you can fab up your own bars, but many people don't have the equipment or the time, and for those drivers, we've done the work and they can bolt on and go racing.

[Rick Dorion]

I have a set of Herb Adam's bars that I never installed. They require either notching the heater box or removing it.

[Hotchkis]

I have a set of Herb Adam's bars that I never installed. They require either notching the heater box or removing it.

We tested over four different designs to achieve a balance of maximum rigidity and easy installation. Our bars will clear the stock box.

[Rick Dorion]

I see! Good design.

[DCx]

how would these work for straight line performance in a car without a roll bar?

my 69 camaro currently has subframe connectors and cal tracs.

[Hotchkis]

how would these work for straight line performance in a car without a roll bar?

my 69 camaro currently has subframe connectors and cal tracs.

They will still make a difference, as they tie the front subframe to the firewall and help prevent subframe flex. The roll bar helps tie everything together, but isn't necessary from a stiffness perspective. Subframe connectors make a huge difference and are even more important when using Handle Bars. As for a drag racing application, getting the chassis as stiff as possible allows you to adjust suspension to maximize tire contact patch.

[fbody_mike]

I noticed the Hotchkis handle bars are listed for the 2nd Gen Camaro and not for the Firebird. Is this because of a motor interference issue? Also, the Hotchkis site mentions to use tubular UCAs, what happens with the stock UCA?

thanks

Mike

[Hotchkis]

I noticed the Hotchkis handle bars are listed for the 2nd Gen Camaro and not for the Firebird. Is this because of a motor interference issue? Also, the Hotchkis site mentions to use tubular UCAs, what happens with the stock UCA?

thanks

Mike

Hi Mike,

The only reason we don't have the 'Bird listed is because we haven't tried them on a car yet and want to make sure they fit. Not sure if there are any subtle differences in the shape of the cowl or firewall. If not, they should fit fine.

One of the mounting points is between the cross shaft on the upper A-arm and the subframe mount... they fit fine with our (and others) tubular arms, but are a pretty tight fit with stock arms.

[Rod]

running the bars on my shop car, they work well and make the suspension work hard, and with less flex the steering is better

[redfire69]

I think the inner WWs are different on a second gen bird. They may interfere w the bars.

[sik68]

Hotchkis,

Can you tell me how much this setup weighs?

What is the effective camber gain of this setup due to the thickness of the a-arm mounting plate? In other terms, how many shims is it equal to?

Thanks,
Steven

[Hotchkis]

Hotchkis,

Can you tell me how much this setup weighs?

What is the effective camber gain of this setup due to the thickness of the a-arm mounting plate? In other terms, how many shims is it equal to?

Thanks,
Steven

Steven, and all -

The first gen Camaro Handle Bars:

Weigh 20 lbs

They have a ¼” mounting surface that takes the place of some or all the alignment shims.

Alignment shims come in various thicknesses from 1/64” to 1/8”

Our tubular A-Arms are standard with billet offset cross shafts, so desired static camber alignment can be optimized.

Rotating the offset cross shaft changes the length of the A-Arm. Static camber then can be changed by 2.8 deg. with the rotation of the cross shaft. Small changes are then made with the alignment shims.

Stock a-arms will not work with these Handle Bars due to the interference with the stock stamped arm.

Of course we recommend our a-arm set up with the Handle Bars, but other high quality a-arms will also work.



The second gen Camaro versions:

Weigh 15lbs.

Have a very efficient design with more straight tubing used than the first generation units. This is due to better packaging clearances in the second gen engine compartment.

Have the same ¼” mounting surface.

Do not work with stock a-arms.

Need Hotchkis or other quality A-Arms with offset cross shafts.



Many people are mentioning the Guldstrand mod. This is the right modification for a quicker negative camber curve and increased static positive camber. We recommend it. In fact, years ago I sent and faxed many of those templates out to Camaro customers when I worked at Guldstrand Engineering. We ground a few frame tabs down to clearance stock a-arms when doing this mod in the days before tubular a-arms.



I see the name Herb Adams mentioned. Great suspension engineer with some very “out of the box” ideas. I drove in a few Trans Am races in 1982 and Herb fielded a wild Pontiac with Milt Minter driving. Back then he was professing stiffer rate springs and lighter rate sway bars, while **** Guldstrand was on the side of lighter springs and stiffer sway bars. Dick’s formula is the route we take because this combination offers superior ride comfort and excellent control for street/track driving.

I'd like to thank you all, we're glad you're out here driving and modifying your cars.

John Hotchkis