global west vs. sc&c

[Norm Peterson]

Not sure how that could be engineered but a toggle switch to change between the two settings would be awesome!

Swapping shims in and out is almost that simple unless you're making a really large camber change (in which case you'll need to do something about the toe change). And it's about as repeatable as adjustable things can possibly get.

For three seasons that's exactly what I did in paddock at each autocross with OE uppers. Drove up to the lot on the street settings, added shims in the morning to get the race specs, took my runs, pulled the "extra" shims out and put them away (individually by location) before going home. Under five minutes per side each way, including the time spent with a little floor jack to make tipping the wheels in/out at the top easier.


Norm

[ROEINONDUBS]

Swapping shims in and out is almost that simple unless you're making a really large camber change (in which case you'll need to do something about the toe change). And it's about as repeatable as adjustable things can possibly get.

For three seasons that's exactly what I did in paddock at each autocross with OE uppers. Drove up to the lot on the street settings, added shims in the morning to get the race specs, took my runs, pulled the "extra" shims out and put them away (individually by location) before going home. Under five minutes per side each way, including the time spent with a little floor jack to make tipping the wheels in/out at the top easier.


Norm

That's a really good idea are the shims slotted on the bottom so u can just loosen the bolt and pull them out?

[Norm Peterson]

Yes. Both the shims that alignment shops use and some "one-off" thicker ones that I fabbed up myself are all "U"-shaped for that very reason. Even body shims are, and those can be used as well.


Norm

[ROEINONDUBS]

Nice

[JRouche]

I also have the SPC adjustable arms with shims too. For me it was about getting the most adjustable suspension I could. With the adjustable arms I can dial in the caster. I mounted my upper arm's mounting plate on the K-member to get a decent static caster and then I can creep up to my final caster setting and play with it with the adjustable tube.

I use the shims to get my camber settings correct while still keeping the arm length the same so Im not changing the camber gain at the same time, or as much as I would be by changing the arm lengths. I set up the arm length for a camber gain that works for me.

As for the quality of the SPC arm, they are pretty solid. The ball joint supplied are also solid looking pieces.

I bought my stuff from SCC. It wasnt their stage kit because I needed a lil more of a custom setup but Mark still killed everyone else on the cost. Thanks Mark.... Nuther satisfied customer... JR

[Pro-Tour Heavy Chevy]

Global West has nice looking arms that could stand an atomic blast and there Del-alum bushings are nice. The SC and C uppers can't be beat for adjust-ability that the GW don't have. Don't let there looks fool you there stout and Marks Service is the best. I run SC and C uppers(stageII kit) with GW lowers. The SC and C Stage II kit was the Single biggest improvement to the handling of my car.

[kball]

I bought the stgII sc&c kit in 06 and it's a sweet seup. Price is right and I called Mark 3 months ago and he was totally helpful. I ended up ordering the new pro touring sway bar for the rear from him as well. Still haven't installed it yet though. Regardless of if you think you're gonna ever adjust it once it's set, you at least have the option to play around if you decide to and it's easy to set it back if need be.

I think the support you get is worth as much as the parts you buy.

[DoABarrelRoll]

Just for thread clarification:

SC&C is an awesome shop

SPC makes the adjustable a-arms we are incorrectly attributing to SC&C

So the thread should read:

SPC VS. Global West

[Tony_SS]

Right but AFAIK Marcus tweaks the SPC arms in many ways. They are not off the shelf parts. Lots of options to be had.

[JRouche]

Just for thread clarification:

SC&C is an awesome shop

SPC makes the adjustable a-arms we are incorrectly attributing to SC&C

So the thread should read:

SPC VS. Global West

Yer right, the SCC arm are made by SPC. But I think anyone that went to SCCs site to look at the stage kits already knows that. They say it right in the description. I for one thought it was pretty obvious but yer right, someone that might not be too familiar might think SCC arms? Didnt know they made arms. And kinda they other way around too. Some folks might not be familiar with SPC but know of SCC and their great service and quality products they distribute.

And you say "WE" are incorrectly attributing. Dont think so. I for one, and Im sure many of the folks know who makes the arms. I think the thread header is just fine.

But thanks for the clarification for anyone that didnt go to the SCC site to see what they have to offer. JR

[JRouche]

Right but AFAIK Marcus tweaks the SPC arms in many ways. They are not off the shelf parts. Lots of options to be had.

I dont know that he tweaks the arms. That may be a misleading statement for some. He doesnt do any mechanical work on the arms, that I know of, I may be wrong. He does combine parts from the SPC catalog to give you a custom arm if thats what you need.

Thats the route I went. Go to the SPC site and download the catalog, its all alacarte if you need that. They also set up arms for certain cars. So I went and got all the part numbers I needed and talked with Mark at SCC and we came up with a pair of arms. I knew what I needed, did alot of research. Mark killed the cost though from any dealer.

And really, I dont even know if he touched my arms, I think it was drop shipped like so many other parts I get. Im sure he stocks their parts, thats the only way you can get a killer dealer pricing scheme.. The more you buy and move the better pricing you get. And really its a crazy amount of money you have to spend with some manufactures as a dealer to get the preferred pricing. JR

[ROEINONDUBS]

Thanks everyone I will be goin with sc&c stage1 oh and I know that sc&c is the vendor which is what I wanted to compare

[BonzoHansen]

Right but AFAIK Marcus tweaks the SPC arms in many ways. They are not off the shelf parts. Lots of options to be had.

In what ways?

2) The arms are prettier

I contest the pretty comment.

[Tony_SS]

Ok maybe I was wrong.. I got the impression he put together the SPC arms for the g-body using their parts. My bad..

x2 on the pretty.

tubular is tubular.. and the shims. and the weight. blah.

[6spdmalibu]

From what I understand, doesn't changing the length of the arms rather than shims change the camber gain and caster on each side. Meaning that each side has a different caster gain due to different lengths. From the sounds of it, the sc&c arms could be used for custom applications (wheel size, offset, etc) and still use shims to keep both arms the same length. Personally am using GW arms as I've bought them back in 93 and still are working well. Same for the Del a lum bushings. Guess it ultimately comes down to preference and funds.

[b-man]

Another advantage of the SPC adjustable upper arms from SC&C is more wheel clearance when you're running wide wheels with deep backspacing.

I'm running 18X9" wheels with 5-1/2" of backpacing on the front of my '64 Pontiac Tempest, with the wheels turned to full steering lock the curved rear tube on my Hotchkis upper arms rubbed the inside of the rim.



The SPC adjustable arms provided the wheel clearance I needed, among their other advantages.

[Yelcamino]

Before I make the following statement, I want to make it clear that I do not consider myself to have super duper driving abilities. I think my driving abilities are decent enough to comment...

Now for comparison sake, in my personal opinion, I haven't noticed a considerable difference in the handling & ride quality between the SPC/AFX suspension and the Global West Negative Roll suspension on my two cars. I've driven them back to back and on similar autocross courses and to me, they feel about the same. There is one difference I will note, the SPC/AFX components have a smaller turning radius and maybe a little quicker steering action than the Global West stuff. Other than that, handling wise, they're about the same.

So, if you're in the market for a new A-body suspension and aren't sure which is the better way to go, I think the main factors you should consider are:

• How much adjustability do you need
• Steering radius
• Cost

[Norm Peterson]

From what I understand, doesn't changing the length of the arms rather than shims change the camber gain and caster on each side. Meaning that each side has a different caster gain due to different lengths. From the sounds of it, the sc&c arms could be used for custom applications (wheel size, offset, etc) and still use shims to keep both arms the same length. Personally am using GW arms as I've bought them back in 93 and still are working well. Same for the Del a lum bushings. Guess it ultimately comes down to preference and funds.

Unless you create relatively a large difference in the lengths, I don't think it'll matter much for anything short of competition that's timed to 0.001 second, and even then you'd need to be able to drive consistent lines and times. Whether a slight UCA length asymmetry might help cover for some other chassis asymmetry or exaggerate its effect is a whole other question.

No reason you couldn't intentionally use a combination of shimming and arm length tweaking as one means of keeping the arm lengths/shapes from becoming too much different from each other.


Norm

[LS1NOVA]

I had heard that SC&C had SPC make a special ball joint plate for his packages to allow more clearance than the regular SPC arms? Anyone confirm? Maybe Marcus will chime in.

[jilge71]

i bought everything from sc&c on my suspension and he helped me set everything up to run together. awsome guy and full of great info