Art Carr 700R4

[jvest]

I just fried the 350 turbo trans in my 68 Camaro. A friend of mine has an Art Carr 700R4 he bought it new in 98 for $2,100 and wants to sell it for $300. He ran it in a 10.5 outlaw car (396 LT1 w/NOS) for 3 years. He pulled it because it was slipping when it shifted into third during a hard run. He replaced it with a 400 turbo. The Art Carr rebuild kit is $270. Does anyone have experience with an Art Carr 700R4? I'm running a 383 SBC that was estimated at 500 to 550hp by both Comp Cams and Barry Grant. Do you think this trans would holdup as a street/strip application? Actually I do more weekend cruises than anything. I've only took it to the strip 1 time in 2 years.

Thanks,
Jim

[critter]

I bought a used one off a guy that was saying about the same stuff your buddy is saying. I put it behind my 462ci Pontiac motor in my 74TA that was making 425hp. I didn't make it around the block. Toasted it.

[Tony_SS]

If you're replacing a th350 I'd look into a 200-4R instead. I can't speak for an Art Carr one, but I've had two different 700-r4's and I didn't like either. First gear is pretty steep.

[jvest]

critter/Tony SS,

I too had a 700R4 over 15 years ago in an 87 Camaro. I built a 375-400hp 355 and put in fornt of it and it only lasted a few weeks before trash. Now after a few more years of experience and less beers, I often wonder if I had the TV cable setup correctly. I called Art Carr today and they said they would rebuild it and make some modifications for $400 plus parts and said it would handle up to 700HP. They would not tell me what the mods would be. I'm currently on the fence on whats the best thing to do. I'd like to have the OD becasue of the 3,000RPMs @ 55MPH, but I do not want to be pulling it back out after a year or two. If it wasn't for the $700 to $1,000 for a controller plus the trans, I'd like to have a 4L80E. With over $30K in the car so far my wife is about to to cut off my funding. I built a little more motor than I really needed for a weekend cruiser. I may be better off to sale the motor and buy a low mileage LS1 w/4L60E.

Jim

[critter]

OK, I have no dog in this fight, but here is what I hear. Art Carr in Texas is who I have to assume you're dealing with. That is not the Art Carr, the transmission builder of note who is now back in California from what I hear. He sold his holdings in Texas. The investors who now own it sell mass production pieces and want to make money. A proper goal for any business. Are they building transmissions to make the hobbiest happy with his high torque, high horsepower car? I can't say. You saw my experience. You get what you pay for.

I'm installing an 80e soon. Again, this is my experience.

[Tony_SS]

Research Art Carr.. I heard they are not the same...

my point was the 200-4R would be ideal for the swap because you could retain your same x-member and driveshaft used with the th350.

[jvest]

OK, I have no dog in this fight, but here is what I hear. Art Carr in Texas is who I have to assume you're dealing with. That is not the Art Carr, the transmission builder of note who is now back in California from what I hear. He sold his holdings in Texas. The investors who now own it sell mass production pieces and want to make money. A proper goal for any business. Are they building transmissions to make the hobbiest happy with his high torque, high horsepower car? I can't say. You saw my experience. You get what you pay for.

I'm installing an 80e soon. Again, this is my experience.

The Art Carr I called was in Texas. After reading your post and looking at this and other forums it seems the majority of folks are saying the same. I think I'll pass on the 700R4. Back to the drawing board.


Jim

[jvest]

Research Art Carr.. I heard they are not the same...

my point was the 200-4R would be ideal for the swap because you could retain your same x-member and driveshaft used with the th350.

That would make it a lot easier. Are they electronic, TV cable or vacuum controlled? What did the 200-4R come in? Do they require a lot of mods to hold the hp?

Jim

[JRouche]

It sounds like you are off the used tranny that yer buddy has. Just a quick blurb from me. When buying a used tranny smell it. LOL Yeah, get yer nose to work. If you can only get to the dip stick juices give it a whiff. Better yet drop the pan. Give a deep whiff. If it smells burnt then it is burnt, beyond repair costs. Dont EVER buy a burnt smelling tranny. JR

[Tony_SS]

I got my 200-4r from bowtie overdrives. it was reasonable.. and I am happy with mine. I think it'll take up 450hp.. its a level 2.

[jvest]

Sorry for the delay response. I’ve been at the NHRA race in Memphis this weekend. Thanks for the good input. The 200-4R would be an easy drop in. With the right mods they seem to hold up good. Using a bone stock trans which would take less mods to handle 500 – 600 HP, the 200-4R or 4L80E? I noticed they make a full manual valve body for the 80E. I don’t think I’d have a problem with the manual shift. That way I’d have it lock-up the converter once I shift into 4th. Does anyone know what cores on the 4L80E trans are the best to start which?

Thanks,
Jim

[critter]

The 4L80e will take far fewer mods. Giving up the electronics would be giving up most of the fun of that transmission in my opinion. That's what's going in my car, along with the controller and paddle shifters from Steve at Twist.

The 200-4r can be built to take the abuse but I'd drop in over on the turbo buick forums to visit with those guys. They are the ones who dealt with the 200-4r from day one and there are some good builders they can recommend.

Memphis, huh? Got wet, didn't you? I used to go every year but the prices kept going up and then I moved a little further away. It's been years now.

[6'9"Witha69]

The man Art Carr runs CPT (California Performance Transmission). Bowtie Overdrives Level 3 with a TV made EZ kit are great. Mine has lasted for years. I have ran 2 of them in the last 10 years. This behind a 508 hp 548lb/ft 383. 700s do have a really steep first (3.08) and a huge drop to 2nd (1.62).

[jvest]

The 4L80e will take far fewer mods. Giving up the electronics would be giving up most of the fun of that transmission in my opinion. That's what's going in my car, along with the controller and paddle shifters from Steve at Twist.

The 200-4r can be built to take the abuse but I'd drop in over on the turbo buick forums to visit with those guys. They are the ones who dealt with the 200-4r from day one and there are some good builders they can recommend.

Memphis, huh? Got wet, didn't you? I used to go every year but the prices kept going up and then I moved a little further away. It's been years now.

I’d like to use the electronic, it’s just the extra expense of the controller right now. I wish there was a short term solution so the car doesn’t sit for several months until money is better.

The rain sucked, but there’s nothing I could do about that. Saturday the forecast called for rain Sunday night. When I got up Sunday morning at 7:00 and looked outside the hotel window it was pouring down. Yes, the tickets are way over priced. My wife and I have season tickets for the nitro seat and they run around $300 a year for both. If it wasn’t for my wife, I’d rather stay at home and watch the 10.5 outlaw cars run heads-up at the local track. The Mid-South Nationals is the only thing motorsport related I can get her to go to.

[jvest]

The man Art Carr runs CPT (California Performance Transmission). Bowtie Overdrives Level 3 with a TV made EZ kit are great. Mine has lasted for years. I have ran 2 of them in the last 10 years. This behind a 508 hp 548lb/ft 383. 700s do have a really steep first (3.08) and a huge drop to 2nd (1.62).

I did notice yesterday that TCI makes a constant pressure valve body that's suppose to keep line pressures up even if the cable is not right. I could also put the full manual valve body in the 700 as well. How do you think the 1-2 gear change will affect it running a 4:10 rear gear? I'm already having trouble hooking with 9 1/2" of meat on the asphalt in 1st & 2nd gear with the 350 turbo, I assume the 700 will be worst.

[critter]

With that 3.08 first gear you can forget about it in low gear. Change the rear end gears down to a mid-3 series and feather it for the launch on street tires with a 700.

I've not heard a real world report yet on that constant pressure valve body. The early reports from some who know these transmissions was that it was snake oil. Then again, some of those saying it had their turf to protect.

Swapping to a manual valve body in the 80e can be done but it requires some mods, I'm told. So then you have to pay for those to be undone down the road to use the electronics. Sorry. I found out the hard way there's no cheap solution to big torque (or horsepower) and overdrive transmissions. For now, I run my TH400 and 3.42 gears. Hopefully, this winter the 4l80e goes in the car.

[jvest]

With that 3.08 first gear you can forget about it in low gear. Change the rear end gears down to a mid-3 series and feather it for the launch on street tires with a 700.

I've not heard a real world report yet on that constant pressure valve body. The early reports from some who know these transmissions was that it was snake oil. Then again, some of those saying it had their turf to protect.

Swapping to a manual valve body in the 80e can be done but it requires some mods, I'm told. So then you have to pay for those to be undone down the road to use the electronics. Sorry. I found out the hard way there's no cheap solution to big torque (or horsepower) and overdrive transmissions. For now, I run my TH400 and 3.42 gears. Hopefully, this winter the 4l80e goes in the car.

I just spoke to a gentlmen that has a 4L80E out of a 91 1ton chevy I can buy for under $250 if I'll pick it up Saturday morning. I think my best longer term option is to buy this 80E, built it over the winter, put a controller and convertor on Santa's wish list. For the short term, I've got another 350 turbo that came in my 69 Camaro. I pulled the pan and it looks clean. I believe has been rebuilt at some point. When I bought the car, it had a blown up 400 sbc. It would be a quick install in my 68.

[KEISLER]

Art can be reached at www.cpttransmission.com 800.278.2277

He's a great guy that really moved the industry forward in the 80s-90s. Call him up and see what he has to offer.

If you decide to go electric, we can provide a low mile takeout 4L60E or 4L65E, along with our new controller, harness and software for $1800. This gives you an upgrade path and driveability you just cannot get with the 200R/700R older transmissions. Things like customizing your shift points on the fly (incl), load 2 calibrations and toggle back and forth (incl), add paddle shifting (opt), etc.

[camaro427-69]

if you get a 200-4R just make sure the direct input drum is a billet one. i bought a 200-4R from M.P.H. in santa ana and it was rated to 750HP but didn´t make it through the 1st burnout behind my 600HP 468BBC cause input drum shaft broke (twice heat treated whatever that means) bought then a billet input drum from CK transmissions http://ckperformance.com/index.html and it lasted 2 years without any problem. pretty forward swap from the 350 and no electronics.

[jbirdcamaro]

you can make a 700r4 live if you put the good stuff in them.www.transmissioncenter.net now offer a planet set for the 700 that changes the first gear ratio.
i had a 700r4 in my car and it also had a 396 lt1 with 350 shot . took it to the track all the time and drove it almost ever day.