1st Gen Camaro Aero woes..

[ITLBTU]

No lectures please on my driving...

Last night a freind and I took my Camaro out for a little speed run. I live in a rural area and this was done on a very wide good condition road. We took off and I went through the first four gears to maybe 130 for a short burst. then shifted to 5th and slowed down. At 100 the front end was lighter and the steering a lot less stable. I know it is an aero problem. The car has a front spoiler and sits pretty low. The suspension is all brand new. Ats up front, and G-bar in back. Has anyone else experienced this problem, and what did you do to correct it? I would like to take it to some track days in the future, but not until I get this fixed.

[Vegas69]

I would have to wonder about the grill opening. It is huge by todays car standards.

[6'9"Witha69]

Do you hav ethe reinforcement bars on the spoiler? The middle one too? Those make a big difference at those speeds. Also, what steering box and PS pump are you using? IIRC, It is possible at those speeds (and RPMs) to overpump the box and make it really sensitive.

[ITLBTU]

I don't have the spoiler reinforced. I have a brand new Lee box from ATS. It's nice and tight at lower speeds. I should have thought about reinforcing the spoiler. I wonder if I boxed in the area behind the grill to force the air I need into the radiator to go through, and then have it so it could be blocked off to force the remaining air around instead of through, and under...

[6'9"Witha69]

I have seen Lexan used across the whole front with a few holes drilled for cooling. Using a deflector on the bottom of the core suopport to create negative pressure behind the radiator will promote air being pulled through it.

First, reinforce the spoiler with the 3 OEM style rods and see how it improves.

[chicane67]

It could be a number of things... and most likely is. The idea is to keep as much of the air as possible from going under the chassis first. Creating negative pressure in the right places would be next.


Definately making sure that the spoiler is braced enough to negate folding is the first thing to do. (Good call as many dont think of this one first.)

Keeping the windows rolled up.

Sealing the hood to the cowl and core support helps out.

Creating more negative pressure just behind the radiator is a HUGE help.

Having more re-bound valving in your dampers will do wonders.

Increasing chassis 'rake' is another way to create negative pressure... but for the entire underbody.


Anything after this... is going to introduce things that are not asthetically pleaseing to most... but if your going for a race car/street fighter look... there is a whole bunch of stuff.

[Rick Dorion]

What's a good sealing material? I made a front closeout panel. Next step is to seal the core support, etc. Thanks, Tom/all!

[406 Q-ship]

I would think about air getting trapped in the engine compartment too. Reducting the grill opening will help with this, but you may need to figure out a way to get the high pressure that builds a way to escape. The 2nd Gen F-body had those fender vents for that reason, I don't personally like the look of them but if it keeps the car on the road......

[chicane67]

Yo Rick... what are you trying to seal ?? There are a bunch of different ways to do a bunch of different things...

Q-ship brings up another potential issue... where to channel the air that is under the hood. It is though that directing the underhood air out the front wheel wells does the most for negative pressure and under body/post vessel aerodynamics. So that pretty much means that controlling of the air out of the radiator that is the biggest challenge. One way to do this is to make a trip fence on the leading edge of the front wheel well opening... very much like how they have done on the Zo6, C5/6R and even on both leading edge openings of TopFuel Funny cars (more-so the rear, as they have really changed the front openings in the past two-three years to shorten the height and it really flairs the track width.)

It looks like this:




Basically what that does is direct the air around the tire so that it doesnt hit the flat face of the tire... increasing the specific chassis' CD. It also creates negative pressure in the wheel well and draws out the majority of the underhood air. It also helps to draw air through the wheels... which helps with brake cooling. It only is formed around the front 90 degrees of the opening... which can increase CD... but what it accomplishes in down force and underbody evacuation is a huge payoff. Not only that... it can be made as a bolt on. In some classes at Bonneville... I can use trip fences... and in some I can not. So having a simple aluminum bolt-on... is priceless.

Anyway...

[6'9"Witha69]

And this bolt onh probably utilizes the inner/outer fender bolts? Interesting . . .

[ITLBTU]

I plan on getting a cowl hood in the future. If it wasn't properly sealed would that allow air to escape that way and negate the cold air effects going to the carb? The car has a little rake to it. I think I might have to think of a more asthetic way to pull air from the wheel wells though...

[6'9"Witha69]

The cowl area is high pressure on the outside which is why rear facing cowl induction works. So it won't do much in that regard.

As for aesthetic, making somethjing that stuck out and tapered down as it went horizontal over the wheel well would blend well with the lines of the '69 fender.

[Rick Dorion]

Hi, Tom. I made a closeout panel for the area in front of the radiator suppport. Now I'm looking for suitable sealing material for the gap between the support top and hood.

[chicane67]

How much gap space are we looking at ??

Just because it pertains to this... I would recommend that those interested... pick up a copy of the Aircraft Spruce catalog... in either a printed or PDF version (I personally recommend a printed catalog, as it is a great idea book, materials explaination, tools etc etc.) They have great selction of construction materials for all sorts of things including car projects. But specifically to this topic, they have a very nice selection of rubber seal products to choose from. For example: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/20...l/Cat08129.pdf

They used to have a race car catalog... but have since discontinued it for unknown reasons to me.

[ATAK, Inc.]

Would ducted air for front brake cooling help at all? I want to seal the out side of my '69 Camaro's headlights and duct to the inside of the brakes. With the ducted air blowing out thru the wheel would that produce a small amount of negative pressure?

[chicane67]

Would ducted air for front brake cooling help at all? I want to seal the out side of my '69 Camaro's headlights and duct to the inside of the brakes. With the ducted air blowing out thru the wheel would that produce a small amount of negative pressure?

No. In your example, it will only localize a small volume that is independant to the area of greater difference.

[ATAK, Inc.]

Thanks for the response. I know this may sound silly, but would a vee shaped spoiler, running from the rear of the front wheel openings to the center of the radiator, or something like that, work? I think I just visualized my own answer, it may for the rear of the car but not for the front wheels, correct?

[chicane67]

Thanks for the response. I know this may sound silly, but would a vee shaped spoiler, running from the rear of the front wheel openings to the center of the radiator, or something like that, work? I think I just visualized my own answer, it may for the rear of the car but not for the front wheels, correct?

Sure... It would work great. It's just that packaging becomes the biggest issue with that idea.

What also does wonders would be mounting the radiator at more of an angle to the mean air flow through the core...

[MrQuick]

Thanks for the response. I know this may sound silly, but would a vee shaped spoiler, running from the rear of the front wheel openings to the center of the radiator, or something like that, work? I think I just visualized my own answer, it may for the rear of the car but not for the front wheels, correct?

Making a set up for a 69 would be tough. Trying to get it to match the rest of the body shape. I've been playing with ideas on my 69 Firebird but nothing looks like it belongs there.

Here's a similar design I was doing for my track car.....but it would not go on the trailer with it on so I scraped the project.

[406 Q-ship]

How much gap space are we looking at ??

Just because it pertains to this... I would recommend that those interested... pick up a copy of the Aircraft Spruce catalog... in either a printed or PDF version (I personally recommend a printed catalog, as it is a great idea book, materials explaination, tools etc etc.) They have great selction of construction materials for all sorts of things including car projects. But specifically to this topic, they have a very nice selection of rubber seal products to choose from. For example: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/20...l/Cat08129.pdf

They used to have a race car catalog... but have since discontinued it for unknown reasons to me.

I have one of the Spruce Aircraft Catalogs, one of the best catalogs
for ideas.