Pedal Talk

[cheapthrillz]

Apparently the first piece of anything that they put in the interior of these cars was the pedal support. Then they wrap everything else around this one piece a dozen times....



I hate how something small like brakes turns into a new interior. I might as well say screw trying to keep this thing on the road and tear it all the way down....

Ugh... I hate cars

[parsonsj]

That's good. An easy thing to fix. Now you need to weld in your balance bar to the brake pedal at the 6:1 ratio spot, mount up your master cylinders so the geometry is right and you have an inch of push-rod travel, and you're good to go.

jp

[parsonsj]

The pedal support is ultra-important to your safety. That's why they do indeed go in first, because they have to bolt securely to the firewall because you want the pushrod moving when you press on the brake pedal... not the firewall moving.

jp

[cheapthrillz]

That's good. An easy thing to fix. Now you need to weld in your balance bar to the brake pedal at the 6:1 ratio spot, mount up your master cylinders so the geometry is right and you have an inch of push-rod travel, and you're good to go.

jp

So you're saying retain the stock pedals and assembly but relocate the pivot point on the mount to fit in the balance bar?

Or fab up a new mount and everything?

I'm not sure if I want to go back with that dash or not yet... what about including a roll cage? Do I incorporate the pedal mount into that too?

JP, I saw your car a few years back at Road Atlanta for the yearone Bandit Run before I was a member of this site and fell in love with it. I told Wes (Formula) that one day the Galaxie would be that bad ass, and I still mean it.

[69stang]

And I wonder why the pedals didn't half work

Cheap,
My original bracket was like that and the shaft was worn half through. I'm now rebuilding my replacement that's been in the car for awhile.

I was gonna use the adjustable proportioning valve I already have but I think I'll go this route now. I'm going hyd clutch anyhow.

[AButler]

JP, I saw your car a few years back at Road Atlanta for the yearone Bandit Run before I was a member of this site and fell in love with it. I told Wes (Formula) that one day the Galaxie would be that bad ass, and I still mean it.

John now you gotta fly out there and build this set up for him. Just think it practice for when II Much sells and you gotta do another over the top project that makes us all say wow

[cheapthrillz]

John now you gotta fly out there and build this set up for him. Just think it practice for when II Much sells and you gotta do another over the top project that makes us all say wow

haha! How awesome would that be! Or maybe I should just buy II Much and be done with it.... If only I had that kinda money....

[The WidowMaker]

well, i was going to sell my brand new opg pedals, but i guess i'll hold on to them. i have some mocking up to do.........

btw, just checked out the pedals on my 70 chevelle, and they are much like those on the OP's car; they drop down to the left of the steering column, and the brake pedal bows to the right around the steering column to end up right underneath it. but, the one thing i have never liked about the wilwood/tilton pedals was their size. with the issue of the brake pedal and gas pedal now being further apart it might lend the opportunity to make the pad much bigger, and more stock appearing. if it was extended about 1.5" - 2" futher to the right, it would almost place it in a stock position. the only other option would be to make a brake pedal to replace the straight shaft of the wilwood setup, but at that pt, its almost better to just use the remote setup.

Tim

[cheapthrillz]

That's good. An easy thing to fix. Now you need to weld in your balance bar to the brake pedal at the 6:1 ratio spot, mount up your master cylinders so the geometry is right and you have an inch of push-rod travel, and you're good to go.

jp

John, thanks for letting me stew for a bit. I think we're on the same page now. My next question would be: What do I do about balance bar interference with the clutch pedal? If the smallest balance bar that tilton offers is 4.75 in long, I will definitely have interference. Do I redesign the clutch pedal or relocate the balance bar? Redesigning the clutch pedal would be the cheapest route for sure....hmmmm I guess I've got more reading to do.

1) Fix the worn out bushing
2) Weld the balance bar into the brake pedal at the 6/1 point & correct clutch interference issuse
3) Size MC bores
4) Fit the MCs correctly on the firewall and extend the pushrods to the balance bar.
5) Reattach clutch linkage

[formula]

this is some serious sh*t! I'm coming over tomorrow and we're nailing down the plan and all the details on this.

[cheapthrillz]

this is some serious sh*t! I'm coming over tomorrow and we're nailing down the plan and all the details on this.

At least there will be one brain functioning tomorrow.... And it most definitely wont be mine

[parsonsj]

Hey guys, thanks for the nice words about my car.

I'm glad we're all talking the same pedal language now! Anyway, JC, I think your plan is workable, and moving the clutch arm shouldn't be too hard. You can weld the balance bar off center (towards the throttle), but just remember the masters will have to move over accordingly.

About the roll cage: if you do plan on putting one in, hanging your pedal assembly from the dash bar (or under dash bar) is definitely the way to go.

jp

[cheapthrillz]

Hey guys, thanks for the nice words about my car.

I'm glad we're all talking the same pedal language now! Anyway, JC, I think your plan is workable, and moving the clutch arm shouldn't be too hard. You can weld the balance bar off center (towards the throttle), but just remember the masters will have to move over accordingly.

About the roll cage: if you do plan on putting one in, hanging your pedal assembly from the dash bar (or under dash bar) is definitely the way to go.

jp

I brought the pedal assembly in and did some measuring. The pedal ratio stock is 6.4:1 (assuming the MC had a 1" stroke that would be 6.4" pedal travel), but there is no way in hell to put the balance bar there OR anywhere on this side of the firewall inline with the brake pedal. The balance bar mounting point would be up in the pedal pedal support as you can see in this picture:



Now what?

[cheapthrillz]

Do I cut the pedal support to fit the balance bar? or go ahead and start researching for the roll cage?

[parsonsj]

Well... this is a turn for the worse. :(

If you cut it, you'll need to add reinforcements to put the strength back. I wouldn't get signed up for a roll cage yet... so I'd at least see if there's a way to use most of the pedal support.

jp

[cheapthrillz]

Well... this is a turn for the worse. :(

If you cut it, you'll need to add reinforcements to put the strength back. I wouldn't get signed up for a roll cage yet... so I'd at least see if there's a way to use most of the pedal support.

jp

I guess I could move the balance bar down on the pedal and have like a 5:1 pedal ratio, but that is going to require a lot more pedal effort for braking..... Have any thoughts about that? I would still have to relocate/redesign the clutch pedal though.

[parsonsj]

No. With manual brakes, pedal ratio is the key. 5:1 will get old fast.

After looking over the pics again, I'd cut 1 to 1.5" out of the pedal support "height", and somehow keep the lower lip.

Or: make a jig from your original pedal support, and fabricate a new tubular-style one that will still bolt in, have the strength you need, and maintain the right geometry.

One thought: is it the clutch that caused the wear since it was mounted in single shear? Maybe you can fix that too...

There is a *lot* of engineering in pedals!

jp

[cheapthrillz]

No. With manual brakes, pedal ratio is the key. 5:1 will get old fast.

After looking over the pics again, I'd cut 1 to 1.5" out of the pedal support "height", and somehow keep the lower lip.

Or: make a jig from your original pedal support, and fabricate a new tubular-style one that will still bolt in, have the strength you need, and maintain the right geometry.

One thought: is it the clutch that caused the wear since it was mounted in single shear? Maybe you can fix that too...

There is a *lot* of engineering in pedals!

jp

I may go the tubular route and set up a jig....What would you recommend material wise for the support? DOM?

Yes the clutch caused the wear. You can see the pic of the clutch mount shaft has a worn spot in where it was rubbing on the support after the plastic bushing wore out.

[parsonsj]

Sure. DOM tube will be fine. Even cheap electric weld tube will work. Consider square or rectangular tubing... it may be easier to fab with.

jp

[cheapthrillz]

Sure. DOM tube will be fine. Even cheap electric weld tube will work. Consider square or rectangular tubing... it may be easier to fab with.

jp

The hard part will be designing it to fit around the balance bar and relocate the clutch pedal. What should I keep in mind when doing the clutch pedal? Disassociate it from the brake? New ball bearings for both pedals @ the pivot point? Keep the steering wheel mounted in the same location? Bore holes for the masters?