Pedal Talk

[69stang]

I was looking into the whole pedal thing lately. I pulled the pedal support out of my mustang last week and have been cleaning up all the pieces and painting them. I planned on going with mustangsteve's bearing kit (http://www.mustangsteve.com/clutchbearings.html) to replace the bushings in the pedal support bracket. Might be another option for you as the bracket is similar and I would guess the shaft and bushings are the same size.

[cheapthrillz]

I was looking into the whole pedal thing lately. I pulled the pedal support out of my mustang last week and have been cleaning up all the pieces and painting them. I planned on going with mustangsteve's bearing kit (http://www.mustangsteve.com/clutchbearings.html) to replace the bushings in the pedal support bracket. Might be another option for you as the bracket is similar and I would guess the shaft and bushings are the same size.

Awesome! That is exactly what is wrong with mine, but instead of spending $90 to fix it, I'm going to look into new pedals that come with the ball bearing shaft... Thanks for the link!

[cheapthrillz]

Here is how my MC is currently... Looks like there is a good bit of room.

[parsonsj]

Oh yeah. I'd go get one of the Tilton remote setups, (either new or used)
and hook it up to your existing pedals. Just make sure your pedal ratio is about 6:1, and that should work very very well.

jp

[cheapthrillz]

Oh yeah. I'd go get one of the Tilton remote setups, (either new or used)
and hook it up to your existing pedals. Just make sure your pedal ratio is about 6:1, and that should work very very well.

jp

You think I should go with the balance bar too? How street-able is a balance bar setup, or is it strictly a race set-up. My car will see A LOT more street than it will track, so I have to make sure that it will work to the best of its ability in any weather condition or road surface.

I guess I could go ahead and get crackin on the pedals (better finish up the radiator install first tho).

[parsonsj]

Exactly. A balance bar allows you to get the right amount of bias towards the front brakes, and uses two separate master cylinders. It's a far superior method for manual brakes, both for safety and performance.

jp

[AButler]

Isn't there a way to adapt two masters to the original pedals. I was sold on the wilwood set up till I just saw the clayton pedals those things are amazing but I still want 2 masters

[parsonsj]

Isn't there a way to adapt two masters to the original pedals?

Yes. It's what we've been talking about: Tilton's remote pedal setup.

[AButler]

John
How did you attach the pedal to the balance bar linkage. Is that stud that points toward the pedal threaded? I can't tell in their pictures

[cheapthrillz]

Ok, heres the deal. In correlation with JP and Tobin @ Kore3, a balance bar set-up w/ dual MC's (although not easy to install) would be best for my car (as a streetfighter build).

Question for John: You keep referring to remote pedal/remote assembly/remote setup, what exactly is remote? The resevoir? The MC? I assume you're talking about the MCs not being mounted to the pedal assembly (instead they're mounted on the firewall) correct?

How much of my stock components would be retained if any? I'm trying to get a cost picture and checklist in my head of what I will need.

What is my next researching step?

[parsonsj]

Have a look at these photos. This is an early prototype of my remote pedal setup. My actual pedals are full custom fabricated instead of the goofy method you see here, but the remote part is the same. On the lower photo, the whole setup is upside and backwards in the photo.

The pedals themselves are not part of the master cylinder assembly. They are connected by a pushrod to the assembly, which is why they are called remote. The cast part you see is the Tilton frame, and is what the masters and balance bar are attached to.

jp

[cheapthrillz]

I think I can answer my own question. The remote part is the balance bar assembly right?

I refurbish my pivot point and install the balance bar in place of the original MC pushrod and install 2 new MCs w/ 2 new pushrods in place of the stock single (in the engine bay).

Then when the time comes, get another MC for the hydraulic clutch if I go that way.

Correct me if I am wrong. If not, I need to figure out the bore of the master cylinders in relation to my braking system (which is not decided yet).

Then install it on the car while making proper adjustments to stroke length.

Also, would installing a proportioning valve in the rear circuit be a good idea to have further adjustment on the rear prake pressure?

[cheapthrillz]

OH GOD..... My head is spinning in circles!

So I cant use the remote mount unless I A) move/redesign the pedals or B) fab it to fit on the firewall.

Can't use the overhung or firewall mount (right now) because it has 2 pedals and I don't have a hydraulic clutch right now....

[parsonsj]

The remote part is the balance bar assembly right?

Yes, along with the master cylinders.

refurbish my pivot point and install the balance bar in place of the original MC pushrod and install 2 new MCs w/ 2 new pushrods in place of the stock single (in the engine bay).

Then when the time comes, get another MC for the hydraulic clutch if I go that way.

Correct. I would only add that the sideways spacing of the masters in relation to the balance bar is important.

Correct me if I am wrong. If not, I need to figure out the bore of the master cylinders in relation to my braking system (which is not decided yet).

I think you've got it. The nice thing now is that you are free to size your masters based on the size of the corresponding brakes, rather than to find the best compromise between the fronts and backs.

Then install it on the car while making proper adjustments to stroke length.

Yes, but most master cylinders are based on a 1" or 1.1" stroke.

Also, would installing a proportioning valve in the rear circuit be a good idea to have further adjustment on the rear prake pressure?

No need. The balance bar will provide what you want to bias the brakes properly.

jp

[parsonsj]

JC,

Have another look at Payton King's post (#14 on page 1). His photo is very good.

jp

[The WidowMaker]

anybody have install pics of the pedal/triple master setup?

i guess it still seems easier to me to just fit an entirely new setup, vs using old and new parts and making them work. i know for the remote setup its only supposed to be attaching pushrods to the pedals and getting them lined up with the master. but, the masters are attached to the pedals on the non remote assembly.

reinforce the firewall, attach the mounting plate, mount the pedals and attach the masters..... besides packaging, what am i missing?

Tim

[parsonsj]

Tim,

The packaging is a big deal. As I mentioned above, proper ergonomics has the brake pedal directly below the steering wheel. The full pedal setups make that difficult with a factory column. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen it done.

Other considerations are brake light sensor, clutch depression sensor, pedal movement and feel, and integration with the throttle pedal.

With a factory dash, firewall, floor, steering column, and throttle, integrating a balance bar into the factory setup seems easier to me.

jp

[cheapthrillz]

Well........... I guess I'll be up for any packaging of the pedals because I well.............. I did this:





To get this---------------------

[parsonsj]

Dude... Uncle Vernon is never gonna buy that car now.

jp

[cheapthrillz]

And I wonder why the pedals didn't half work