Project BLUEprint, 1965 Falcon

[riles]

Unbelievable build. Very nice work.

[Bryce]

Unbelievable build. Very nice work.

Thank you!

[Bryce]

a few more progress pics:

Sway bar mounts and new ball joints.

[Bryce]

a couple more mock pictures:





The brackets are finished, just need to order some aluminum rod ends and cut/drill the arms and my car will be back together.

[Bryce]

The sway bar is in the car finally.

I cut the arms down.



My dad drilled them out to save some weight.



This sway bar is twice the stiffness of the old bar and 3 pounds lighter.



I am not sure if those rod ends will make it on the final install. I am getting some bind at full bump and full droop.

Now ever suspension and steering attachment point front and rear is a spherical bearing.

A little bit more clearancing of the outer shock tower support and the car will be going back together. SCCA this Sunday is still my target.

[rustomatic]

The arms look awesome, Bryce! "Twice the stiffness" seems like a big jump, however--you should have some fun finding out the differences in roll stiffness at varying speeds.

Question: Based on what you discerned from (autocrossing/driving with) your previous bar, did you ever notice a difference between how flat (or not) the car seemed at 40 mph versus 70 (in a turn, of course)? My plain 1 & 1/8 seems to work better at higher speed...

Second (possibly annoying) Question: Before changing to the new bar, did you try out different Watt's pilot (roll center) adjustments?

The more we tweak, the more we seem to find the differences between road course and auto-x setups...

[Racer351C]

I am new to this forum and when I found your thread I had to subscribe. Awesome car and build! I am very interested in the suspension mods you have done so far and have a few questions about them. Forgive me if my questions have been addressed already. I have read a good portion of this thread but not all of it. What method did you use to determine the length of the upper link in your three point rear suspension? Where did you source your upper control arm shafts to build your upper control arms? What are the specs on the alumunum you used for your recently added front sway bar mounts? Thanks and keep up the great work.

[Bryce]

The arms look awesome, Bryce! "Twice the stiffness" seems like a big jump, however--you should have some fun finding out the differences in roll stiffness at varying speeds.

Question: Based on what you discerned from (autocrossing/driving with) your previous bar, did you ever notice a difference between how flat (or not) the car seemed at 40 mph versus 70 (in a turn, of course)? My plain 1 & 1/8 seems to work better at higher speed...

Second (possibly annoying) Question: Before changing to the new bar, did you try out different Watt's pilot (roll center) adjustments?

The more we tweak, the more we seem to find the differences between road course and auto-x setups...

I wanted the large change so that I can 'bracket' the problem.

My previous setup really liked slolems and hated sweepers. By the time I go to the middle of a sweeper the front end would just push.

THe front end pushing was more of an issue with front grip not too much grip out back. So I did not want to reduce rear grip I wanted to increase front grip.

The new setup is tail happy. And it feels much better.

[Bryce]

I am new to this forum and when I found your thread I had to subscribe. Awesome car and build! I am very interested in the suspension mods you have done so far and have a few questions about them. Forgive me if my questions have been addressed already. I have read a good portion of this thread but not all of it. What method did you use to determine the length of the upper link in your three point rear suspension? Where did you source your upper control arm shafts to build your upper control arms? What are the specs on the alumunum you used for your recently added front sway bar mounts? Thanks and keep up the great work.

Thank you, I wrote a 3-link excel spreadsheet calculator. If I plug in the anitsquat and instant center and 2 of the four points it calculates the other 2 points.

The front UCA shafts are from TCP. I bought them for 25 dollars.

The swy bar brackets are 6061-T6 aluminum, I cut them from a piece of 6"x4"x3/8" angle.

[GrabberGT]

Thats strange. Everything I have read says increasing the front sway bar rate will reduce oversteer. You increase seems to have done the opposite.

[Bryce]

Thats strange. Everything I have read says increasing the front sway bar rate will reduce oversteer. You increase seems to have done the opposite.

I agree, but I think my car had so much body lean that the outside tire even with a lot of camber gain was going into positive camber and there was no weight on the inside tire. Now Im using both front tires and I can tell the diference.

[Matt@BOS]

Thats strange. Everything I have read says increasing the front sway bar rate will reduce oversteer. You increase seems to have done the opposite.

I went through similar tuning changes setting up my car. When looking at pictures it is almost scary how much Bryce's Falcon would lean into corners. It was definitely just getting too much weight for the tire to handle and stiffening it up should help. I would bet tightening everything up 25 percent or more might even help.

Matt

[Racer351C]

Thanks for the info Bryce. $25 is very reasonable for the shafts. I am planning a three link suspension for the back of my 93 Mustang. Is the spreadsheet you configured something you would be willing to share? Have you experimented with any computer programs which shows roll center movement or migration for the front suspension?

[Bryce]

I went through similar tuning changes setting up my car. When looking at pictures it is almost scary how much Bryce's Falcon would lean into corners. It was definitely just getting too much weight for the tire to handle and stiffening it up should help. I would bet tightening everything up 25 percent or more might even help.

Matt

Agreed. I can step up to the 1/4" wall thickness bar or even the solid if I need to. But I need to drive the car and tune with what I got first.

[Bryce]

Thanks for the info Bryce. $25 is very reasonable for the shafts. I am planning a three link suspension for the back of my 93 Mustang. Is the spreadsheet you configured something you would be willing to share? Have you experimented with any computer programs which shows roll center movement or migration for the front suspension?

Shoot me an email. I can send you the file but it might need some over the phone explanation.

As far as programs, I use performace trends.

[Racer351C]

Thanks Bryce, will do.

Was the Performance Trends program worth the investment for you? I have considered buying such a program to experiment with.

[rustomatic]

Thanks for the feedback, Bryce--it's amazing how counterintuitive changes can sometimes make the most sense. I've been trying to figure out proper caster for like two months now... Have you made any final decisions for or against a rear sway bar yet? I've kind of been eyeing Maier's nice splined model, but it kind of just gives me images of my car doing a Wiffle ball spin off the side of the road...

[Bryce]

Thanks Bryce, will do.

Was the Performance Trends program worth the investment for you? I have considered buying such a program to experiment with.

I will email that out to you today when I get home.

I think that the program was worth the cost. I spent some money on my suspension and this helped me get it right the first time. They do have a one week trial. Test and tune!

[Bryce]

Thanks for the feedback, Bryce--it's amazing how counterintuitive changes can sometimes make the most sense. I've been trying to figure out proper caster for like two months now... Have you made any final decisions for or against a rear sway bar yet? I've kind of been eyeing Maier's nice splined model, but it kind of just gives me images of my car doing a Wiffle ball spin off the side of the road...

Right now, im going with no sway bar. The packaging would be a nightmare and I think I can adjust the RC on my watts link enough to make me happy. Plus no sway bar is lighter. HAHA.

[Racer351C]

Test and Tune! HaHa! I will have to try it out.