Project BLUEprint, 1965 Falcon

[85coupe50]

How was the test drive? Looks amazing!

[Bryce]

How was the test drive? Looks amazing!

Thanks, I had a minor clearance issue that required a last minute order to McMaster Carr. I should have parts tomorrow then a scales session to dial in the car again. Then a test drive, maybe wednesday after work.

Awesome stuff bryce! Good idea with the oversized washer to catch a busted rod end

Thanks Steve, didnt I get that idea from you?

Needs more cow bell.

HAHA, needs more track time!

[64futura]

Hey Bryce,
I apologize in advance for my posts length. I must say that you have done some fabulous work and this has been very eye opening for me in my own project. I myself have a 64 Falcon, though it is a four door. This brings me to my main point; in regards to your front suspension build (I understand it was done quite a while ago.) When you built it, did you maintain roughly the same positioning of the ball joints in the LCA and UCA in relation to factory specs? Also I remember somewhere in the previous 88 pages you mentioned which type of ball joint fit the application (screw in with proper taper for factory spindles) but which one is it?

Thank you so much in advance.
~Willis

[rustomatic]

Your ideas totally make sense, Bryce--thanks for the response. You constantly demonstrate how so many of us need this site, because without it, people would just stare at us like crazy aliens whenever we choose to verbalize (our thoughts on) any of this stuff.

On the topic of a toe-out alignment, I did experiment with this myself when I first put my Falcon together with the stock stuff. It got down the road okay (for an antique), but something was always off; I'd initially set toe this way, as I'd remembered it from an SVT Focus I had. Then, I realized that front-drive cars usually address toe in opposition to a rear-driver, given the torque applied through the front-driving wheels. Granted, we can look at Indy cars and whatnot, and presume to detect a toe-out set up in their front wheels. Here's where I have no idea what I'm talking about...

At any rate, the toe-out may work for the auto-x, but it may give you some difficulty/unpredictability in normal driving. Granted, you're probably not going to cruise up to Hollywood all that often with 4.11 gears...

My latest shoot-myself-in-the-foot idea is electric power steering...

Here is a quick explanation of what my thoughts are. By the way I see some roll in turns. I previously have about 1" of toe in for 3" of droop. That would be noticeable even at 1.5" of droop.

I run toe out at ride height in order to get faster reacting turn in. Since the inside tire is all ready pointed in the direction of the turn. Since I have no toe change under suspension droop the inside toe angle during the turn will not change. Since the outside tire during a turn has less angle than the inside tire (definition of ackerman) the static toe out reduces ackerman. During a turn the outside suspension is under compression, my current bumpsteer setup will induce a little toe in under compression; that should increase ackerman. In theory that would cancel the reduced ackerman due to the static toe out I like to run.

Did that make sense?

[blade]

Hey Bryce, Won't that long of a bolt put a lot of stress on the spindle arm in single shear?

[Bryce]

Hey Bryce,
I apologize in advance for my posts length. I must say that you have done some fabulous work and this has been very eye opening for me in my own project. I myself have a 64 Falcon, though it is a four door. This brings me to my main point; in regards to your front suspension build (I understand it was done quite a while ago.) When you built it, did you maintain roughly the same positioning of the ball joints in the LCA and UCA in relation to factory specs? Also I remember somewhere in the previous 88 pages you mentioned which type of ball joint fit the application (screw in with proper taper for factory spindles) but which one is it?

Thank you so much in advance.
~Willis

Willis, thank you for the compliments and good luck with your falcon project.

I moved things around to fit the tires and get the camber curves where I wanted them. I also clocked the angle of the ball joints so they were at zero angle to the spindle at ride height. I used a chrysler screw in ball joint from AFCO, they were k722 or k727. I will look through my reciepts and post that up here.

Your ideas totally make sense, Bryce--thanks for the response. You constantly demonstrate how so many of us need this site, because without it, people would just stare at us like crazy aliens whenever we choose to verbalize (our thoughts on) any of this stuff.

On the topic of a toe-out alignment, I did experiment with this myself when I first put my Falcon together with the stock stuff. It got down the road okay (for an antique), but something was always off; I'd initially set toe this way, as I'd remembered it from an SVT Focus I had. Then, I realized that front-drive cars usually address toe in opposition to a rear-driver, given the torque applied through the front-driving wheels. Granted, we can look at Indy cars and whatnot, and presume to detect a toe-out set up in their front wheels. Here's where I have no idea what I'm talking about...

At any rate, the toe-out may work for the auto-x, but it may give you some difficulty/unpredictability in normal driving. Granted, you're probably not going to cruise up to Hollywood all that often with 4.11 gears...

My latest shoot-myself-in-the-foot idea is electric power steering...

Thanks!

I have about 100 miles on the car with this toe out setting. It tracks pretty good but does find the ruts/expansion joints in the road. It doesnt bother me though.

I dont typically cruise this car. I drive to autocross and thats it. And to work once a year.

I like the idea of eletric power steering. Expensive and I havent seen a kit that can handle the loads I put into it.

Hey Bryce, Won't that long of a bolt put a lot of stress on the spindle arm in single shear?

THe shoulder bolt itself has no issues with that load. It can handle 18,000 pounds in single shear. I assume a front end weight of 1500 pounds with me and at a 2G load all on one tire thats only 3000lbs on one bolt. To counter the high stresses that the bolt does see I went to a large OD spacer to help spread the load into the spindle and react the moment. The inner tierod attach point has a 1.5" lever arm to the centerpoint of the rod end. The outer tierod has a 1.85" lever arm. The weakest link in the system is the aluminum thread sleeve. I might replace that with steel to increase the stiffness.

[Bryce]

I guess I am not racing today. The alternator died last night. I guess that is better than at the autocross.

[Bryce]

Well, I made it out sunday for another successful autocross.

3 guys from the PT world made it out there. Jay Bittle from JBA brought out two mustangs. It was a good turn out on sunday. My upgrades were better. The trans stayed cool and being able to monitor the engine oil temp was nice. The stiffer springs helped on the longer sweepers by reducing body roll. I think a bigger sway bar is next. The falken tires were not good cold. That is my only complaint.

Saturday had some crazy dips and a few cars did not survive. I am glad I didnt make it out on saturday.

I will post some videos tonight. I got 7 runs.

[Bryce]

[Tomswheels]

Well, I made it out sunday for another successful autocross.

I will post some videos tonight. I got 7 runs.

Vids look good Bryce, I know it was a tight course, were you happy with your times? I had to leave early so I only saw the first one, which looked very smooth

[Bryce]

Vids look good Bryce, I know it was a tight course, were you happy with your times? I had to leave early so I only saw the first one, which looked very smooth

The first run was a 58.xxx and my 3rd and best run was a 55.172.

I beat mark in his chevelle by 2 tenths and beat Jay Bittle in his new Boss 302 and his widebody fox mustang by a second or more. I felt pretty good with the car, I just need more seat time. I easily left a second or two out there with my lack of experience with the car. I think I just need to start driving it now. I really need to learn the car and adjust want I currently have making small improvements. I think i am done making LARGE changes for awhile.

[fordsbyjay]

The first run was a 58.xxx and my 3rd and best run was a 55.172.

I beat mark in his chevelle by 2 tenths and beat Jay Bittle in his new Boss 302 and his widebody fox mustang by a second or more. I felt pretty good with the car, I just need more seat time. I easily left a second or two out there with my lack of experience with the car. I think I just need to start driving it now. I really need to learn the car and adjust want I currently have making small improvements. I think i am done making LARGE changes for awhile.

Nice...

[blade]

Cool videos, the car sounds great, look like it is coming together for you.

[rustomatic]

Dude, awesome! You beat the guy who built the most awesome Fox-bodies--I remember the JBA Dominators! Considering that they were supposed to be 1G cars (if that's what JB brought, aside from the Boss), your stuff must be working pretty darn well now. Congrats!

How did the 510 in front of you do?

[Bryce]

Nice...

Thanks Jason

Cool videos, the car sounds great, look like it is coming together for you.

Thanks Eddie

Dude, awesome! You beat the guy who built the most awesome Fox-bodies--I remember the JBA Dominators! Considering that they were supposed to be 1G cars (if that's what JB brought, aside from the Boss), your stuff must be working pretty darn well now. Congrats!

How did the 510 in front of you do?

Thanks, I was behind the 510 and never saw his times. My dad didnt see them either. They post results a week or so after the event. I will post them up here.

[454bug]

The first run was a 58.xxx and my 3rd and best run was a 55.172.

I beat Jay Bittle in his new Boss 302 and his widebody fox mustang by a second or more.

Hey Bryce,

You are REALLY getting your car dialed in!! J Bittle was my best buddy in college... Wait 'til I call him and give him a hard time! You know, he's like me... he IS getting pretty old... his reflexes must be going away!! LOL!!!

Ask J about some of our wild-and-crazy times at Texas A&M and the Sports Car Club... He had (and still has) his '67 Shelby GT500 Mustang (427 tunnel-port) and I had my '65 convertible Corvette... a LOT of good memories... Nowadays, he spends most of his racing time in his REAL '68 Trans Am Mustang doing the Vintage racing thing.

I sure wish I was in San Diego racing with you guys! Every time I come out to visit J, I don't want to leave...

Keep shiftin' and driftin'...

[Bryce]

Hey Bryce,

You are REALLY getting your car dialed in!! J Bittle was my best buddy in college... Wait 'til I call him and give him a hard time! You know, he's like me... he IS getting pretty old... his reflexes must be going away!! LOL!!!

Ask J about some of our wild-and-crazy times at Texas A&M and the Sports Car Club... He had (and still has) his '67 Shelby GT500 Mustang (427 tunnel-port) and I had my '65 convertible Corvette... a LOT of good memories... Nowadays, he spends most of his racing time in his REAL '68 Trans Am Mustang doing the Vintage racing thing.

I sure wish I was in San Diego racing with you guys! Every time I come out to visit J, I don't want to leave...

Keep shiftin' and driftin'...

Thanks!

J is a cool guy, he even tech'ed my car, HAHA!

Uh-oh, now I woke the sleeping beast. HAHA. I hope he keeps coming out. It will be fun competition. I do watch the vintage racing every year at coronado, he usually does pretty good.

Call me the next time you are in San Diego.

[Bryce]

Time for pictures:



because RaceCar! yep, thats my SCCA number.



All empty and clean... time for a change.



and my new office:

[Bryce]

Dude, awesome! You beat the guy who built the most awesome Fox-bodies--I remember the JBA Dominators! Considering that they were supposed to be 1G cars (if that's what JB brought, aside from the Boss), your stuff must be working pretty darn well now. Congrats!

How did the 510 in front of you do?

Here are the results: http://www.sdr-scca.com/solo2/result...-2_fin-web.htm

The 510 ran in SU and ran a 55.339. He had a small block ford in there.

Here are some links to the pictures:

http://lateapexphoto.com/p783852798/h57a45474#h57a45474
http://lateapexphoto.com/p783852798/h57a43cc4#h57a43cc4
http://lateapexphoto.com/p783852798/h57a44c54#h57a44c54
http://lateapexphoto.com/p783852798/h57a446dc#h57a446dc

I need a bigger sway bar to reduce body roll. I think there is some daylight on the inside tire acclerating out of a turn.

[QuarterD25]

Bryce, any tips on doing the hammer tone paint? The internet searchs resulted in mix reviews.