Project BLUEprint, 1965 Falcon

[Bryce]

im sorry if this question has already been answered but what front spindles are you using? i know you said you designed the front suspension but did you use the stock spindles with upgraded brakes? i like the car a lot by the way. Gotta love a Ford

I used the stock V8 spindles. My initial goal was to be build a less expensive suspension setup that would outperform any other suspension on the market. Since I already had the brakes I decided to keep the brakes and spindles in the first iteration.

I removed my outer shock tower supports. There was no way I could run as low or wide as I do with them in place. I dont seem to be missing Them either. I talked with Total Control about it and they said its not uncommon to do so. If I find the need to have a bump stop, I'll add one to the shock shaft.

Yours look nice. Mount them on the wall if you decide not to use them.

Thanks Chris, If I section out about 1" wide by 3" high, I should get enough clearance. I run a bump stop on my coilovers and a droop limiter off the outer shock tower support. I also think there is a structual element to the outer shock tower. It helps triangulate everything. I will be keeping them, for now. Cobra automotive and ridetech both sell new outer shock tower supports designed for tire clearance. So someone thinks they are useful, even global west sells a tubular version that proabaly adds 10 pounds per side.

[GrabberGT]

Thanks Chris, If I section out about 1" wide by 3" high, I should get enough clearance. I run a bump stop on my coilovers and a droop limiter off the outer shock tower support. I also think there is a structual element to the outer shock tower. It helps triangulate everything. I will be keeping them, for now. Cobra automotive and ridetech both sell new outer shock tower supports designed for tire clearance. So someone thinks they are useful, even global west sells a tubular version that proabaly adds 10 pounds per side.

Thats a good idea. I'll contact ridetech to see if they will bring a set to GG next month for me to try out to see if they'll fit.

[Bryce]

Thats a good idea. I'll contact ridetech to see if they will bring a set to GG next month for me to try out to see if they'll fit.

that would be cool if they did that. Only 100 bucks each or something. I have too much work in mine already to just scrap them.

[jtjohn03]

[QUOTE=Bryce;969819]I used the stock V8 spindles. My initial goal was to be build a less expensive suspension setup that would outperform any other suspension on the market. Since I already had the brakes I decided to keep the brakes and spindles in the first iteration. [QUOTE=Bryce;969819]

thats pretty cool. im in wyotech and want to do some similiar stuff to my 71 torino up in chassis fab and i was thinking maybe i could use my stock spindles and stuff to cut down cost while im in school and i could always upgrade it later. i wasnt sure if it was possible but now i see it is! thanks

[Bryce]

thats pretty cool. im in wyotech and want to do some similiar stuff to my 71 torino up in chassis fab and i was thinking maybe i could use my stock spindles and stuff to cut down cost while im in school and i could always upgrade it later. i wasnt sure if it was possible but now i see it is! thanks

John,

Good luck at Wyotech. The 71 spindles I thikn are mre desireable than the 65 spindles, they have a larger snout and may has the disc brake attach points already. The only downside to using the stock spindle is the long steering arm that may limit your steering options. Start a build thread on here and share the Torino love. FEtorino has a pretty cool build going right now. He put a full frame under it!

[jtjohn03]

John,

Good luck at Wyotech. The 71 spindles I thikn are mre desireable than the 65 spindles, they have a larger snout and may has the disc brake attach points already. The only downside to using the stock spindle is the long steering arm that may limit your steering options. Start a build thread on here and share the Torino love. FEtorino has a pretty cool build going right now. He put a full frame under it!

i will be sure to start a build thread on here once i get going. mine is already disk and everything so i think it work out pretty nice. if FEtorino has the Red 68-69 fastback then ive seen it over on lateral-g before. that car is awesome! i would love to do a build like that on my other 70 fastback.
thanks, Jay

[Bryce]

A few parts showed up...

Dont worry the grade 8 bolts are for mock up only. I will be replacing those with alloy steel shoulder bolts later.

The high misalignment rodends are for the outer tierods so that I can eliminate bumpsteer.

I also marked the outer shock tower supports for clearance.

[Bryce]

I dialed out almost all of the bumpsteer today. I have zero toe change in droop and .090 toe in during compression. This may help during cornering and ackermann. I run .060 toe out right now at ride height which reduces my ackermann. So during a hard turn the outside would compress and toe in slightly, increasing my ackermann. I will try this setting out on March 2nd at the SCCA event. If I dont like it I will remove one shim and move the outer tie rod up, this will reduce the toe in during bump. I made the spacers tonight and will pick up alloy steel shoulder bolt on monday and bolt eveything together and snap some pictures. I spaced the rodend down so that the center is about 2inches below the bottom of the spindle.

[Bryce]

updates to the TDL:

The trans cooler needs a fan: DONE
Remove local trans temp gauge and move to the dash: DONE
Install 400 lbs/in springs: SPRINGS RECEIVED
Install gauge into the engine oil pan to monitor temp: DONE
Notch and reweld the outer shock tower supports. NOTCHING COMPLETE
Install a breather catch can: 50% COMPLETE
Dial in the steering and remove as much bumpsteer as possible. I ordered high misalignment rod ends. The mustang with a similar set up is down to .015" toe change over 6" of droop. 90% COMPLETE

[fordsbyjay]

Is that a formula written on your shock tower brace??? lol

[Bryce]

Is that a formula written on your shock tower brace??? lol

hahaha! Its just the diameter or the corner radius for notching the shock towers. HAAHAH!

[rustomatic]

That's amazing that you can virtually eliminate toe change over all that suspension droop--my wheels get pretty toed-in at full droop, but this nearly never happens with the weight on the car, so it is not noticeable. Given the simple application of a stiffer suspension (especially with your new springs and limiting cables/straps), unless you're rock-crawling, when would your car ever actually experience that kind of droop? Have you actually been able to determine/notice bump steer while driving your car in its most recent configuration?

With all the talk of bump steer (or bum-steer) around here, my setup should provide a bit, but it has not been noticeable, unless I completely mangle the alignment, which I've done a few times. Notice the imperfect angles:

Attachment 71485

[Bryce]

Here is a quick explanation of what my thoughts are. By the way I see some roll in turns. I previously have about 1" of toe in for 3" of droop. That would be noticeable even at 1.5" of droop.

I run toe out at ride height in order to get faster reacting turn in. Since the inside tire is all ready pointed in the direction of the turn. Since I have no toe change under suspension droop the inside toe angle during the turn will not change. Since the outside tire during a turn has less angle than the inside tire (definition of ackerman) the static toe out reduces ackerman. During a turn the outside suspension is under compression, my current bumpsteer setup will induce a little toe in under compression; that should increase ackerman. In theory that would cancel the reduced ackerman due to the static toe out I like to run.

Did that make sense?

[linkstar69]

Seems to

[Bryce]

Upgrading the tie rods again. The attached picture shows the evolution of tie rods on the falcon. The latest setup is 1.8 pounds lighter per side.

[Lowagon68]

Bryce, I have read your entire thread (whew!!) and have enjoyed every page. Love the car and the evolution of the build. Your work is inspiring and motivating me to take the next steps planned for my Falcon wagon. Still a little chilly in the shop here in PA, but Spring is coming!!

Chris

[Bryce]

Bryce, I have read your entire thread (whew!!) and have enjoyed every page. Love the car and the evolution of the build. Your work is inspiring and motivating me to take the next steps planned for my Falcon wagon. Still a little chilly in the shop here in PA, but Spring is coming!!

Chris

Chris,

Thanks for the love! falcon wagons are cool. I have always wanted a twin for my falcon.

[Bryce]

Finalized the steering today.

I drilled out the center link with a 12.5mm cobalt drill bit. That opened up the tapered hole to .492". A 1/2" shoulder bolt measures .496". So I honed the hole with a drum sander to .495 and tapped teh shoulder bolts in. That produced a really nice tight fit.




I painted the center link with my usual hammertone gold. It matches gold irridate and is the toughest spray paint I have seen out of a can.

Here is the stack up of washer on the new inner tierod. I can now adjust my ackerman. I still need to develope a good way to measure it. SO I matched stock.


I used the regular chromoly rod ends on the inner pivot, 5/8-18 thread and 1/2" hole in the ball.

Here is a picture of the outer tie rod spacers. I added washers to adjust bumpsteer if needed in the future.

The larger OD stainless washers are being used as a safety washer incase I ever have a rod end failure.
The outer tie rod uses a high misalignment chromoly rod end with 60 degrees of articulation. It has 5/8-18 thread with a 1/2 hole in the ball.

And finally a installed view at full droop:



Time for a test drive!

[Motorcitydak]

Awesome stuff bryce! Good idea with the oversized washer to catch a busted rod end

[QuarterD25]

Needs more cow bell.