Car Crafting is DEAD

[jcerioni]

In the past era of car crafting, men where measured by the badges of honor they wore on their bloody knuckles, you did not measure up until you spent the night in a pool of automatic transmission fluid, bench pressing a TH400 transmission into place. The language of this fraternity of outcast gearheads lays heavy with mystifying terms such as "triple duce, "410 posi", "huffer", "juice bottle". This curious breed of heathen was addicted to speed, using their ingenuity and skills to push their chariots to ever-newer heights of speed and power. Individuals thought independently. Avant-Guard was being different, not following the crowd. People had brains not money. A car crafter would get an idea and discuss it with some of his buddies over a few brews in the garage, information and experience would be shared, and the idea would evolve and become reality through the blood and sweat of the car crafter. If you could do it cheaper than the next guy could, every one listened. Our financial resources limited us, not our imagination.



As I browse through the pages of the forum and VB Garage, I get the opposite feeling, people here are limited by their imagination, not their pocket books -- $17,000 crate engines, $40,000 for a reputable body shop to do the chassis and paint. These body shops churn out one car after the other, all looking pretty much the same. When I ask some one about their car, I get no answer. It makes me think, they don't even understand the question, more or less capable of giving me back an informative answer. I get the feeling that Car Crafting has morphed into Muscle Car Consumerism. There is no honor in throwing $70-100 k at a body shop with the specification of "Build me a Cool Car". Then taking pictures of it as is slowly makes it way through the body shop, posting to the forum and saying "Look at my cool car!" If you have that much money, you would be better off buying a new Corvette Z06, Ford GT, or Dodge Viper, or dare I say it -- Mitsubishi EVO. Anyone who thinks that these body shop pro-touring cars would ever be able to match up to a modern performance car is just kidding himself or herself.

[Steve1968LS2]

God.. another one of these "because you don't do it MY way you are less of an enthusiast" type posts..

This is going to sound rude but.. get over yourself..

Different people have different ways of accomplishing the same thing. Some people love old cars but work 10 hours a day and as such can not spend countless hours working on thier dream car. does it mean they are not as passionate? No, they are doing what they can.

Some people (like myself) do all that we can given our resources and talent. I cant paint and I don't have a place to do it.. so I pay a body shop to block and shoot my car.. with my design in the colors I picked. Could I do it myself? sure i could but then again you could kill your own cattle and butcher it yourself.. what honor is there in hiring some meat market guy to do it for you?

Personally I don't see a lot of these $17k crate motors you spoke about on here.. many of the people here have tight budgets and part of the "art" is in getting the best ride possible while staying in that budget. We all have varying degrees of skills on this board, some of us do this for a living while others as a hobby. Some are great fabricators and others are better at coming up with the ideas.

To act like your so much better than someone because you "crafted" you own car (btw.. where is this car??) is rather ignorant and does not speak to the other things intrinsic to a car. These things are measured in the balance of the car and how it flows. If I design a complete car and somebody else builds the car then who's car is it? Who gave the car a "soul"?

Whenever I see these threads I just see someone bitter that someone else had the resources to have a car built in all or part. It is like saying "if you can't do it all yourself then you can't play".. to say they "have no honor" is just rude.

I find your post unimaginative.. It is the same old "well I'm so much better because I built my whole car using only my teeth and a rusty hammer".. It reeks of class envy and of a snobbiness I have never liked in parts of this hobby. It is the same as the restoration guys that look down on the hot rodders because, in thier minds, they screwed up a classic. It's the old car guys that look down on a fixed up newer car because "it's not old enough" (seeming to forget that their "cool" cars were once new also).

I didn't built my PT car to be a better handling car than a new vette.. I just wanted it to handle well. The fun of the car is in driving something that is unlike 99.8% of the cars on the road. I love tinkering with my car and fine tuning it. Most of all I love to drive it. Maybe the car-crafting hobby is dead within you? You have seemed to have lost the basic principal of the hobby.. different people taking different paths to the same end. If you think people need to do it your way to be doing it right then you are just kidding yourself.

By the way.. feel free to ask me any question about my car, betch I know the answer

[Nine Ball]

People had brains not money....Our financial resources limited us, not our imagination.

Hmmm, I agree with some of what you are saying, but definitely not all of it. As long as cars have been built, there have always been guys that paid others to build them for them and never got a finger nail dirty. That isn't some new trend, and it surely won't ever change with the times. I'd venture to say that probably half of the enthusiasts out there didn't build their own car. Many of them prefer to buy them already completed and enjoy them immediately. Thats good for guys like us that will sell a completed project.

As for money and financials, thats where you are WAY off. I had to build my first car, my parents couldn't afford to buy me a car. I worked by mowing yards and flipping burgers at McDonalds to buy my first car - a rusted out heap of a '69 Camaro for $1200. I was 15, and spent a year restoring that car on a Mickey D's budget.

fast forward a few years....put myself through college...got the good paying job and own a business. Has my love for cars and building them changed any because I have money now? Nope. I still build them myself and only farm out things that I'm not capable of doing myself (yet). I put a lot of money into them, and they are far nicer than what I owned as a kid. But, does that mean I'm not a "car crafter" because I have a larger budget now? nope.

The bottom line is, don't assume that because some guy isn't a broke ass, he isn't a "car crafter" as you describe.

Tony

[Q ship]

Wow, two posts here and you put up this piece of ****. You've chosen to ignore all the great tech here and get yourself into a snit over-what-the 25% of the people here that have more money than time. Goodbye, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[OHCbird]

1. If you think that there are a bunch of plug-and-play cars here that lack ingenuity, you're completely blind.

2. Ya know- I'm also jealous of some of these younger, successful guys that have put together some great machines; I'd love to do what some of them can do, but I don't have the funds. Do I post up and say they are lesser 'car crafters' because of it? No. I accept where I'm at, and know where I'm going. Maybe you should try a little of the same...

[DarkBuddha]

I don't mean that in a patronizing way, but rather an acknowledgement of the some of the truth found in your statements which has been hashed and rehashed. Certainly there are some shop built/big coin/more money than time cars among the folks that post here. However, there are lots and lots of enthusiast/home garage built cars too.

You've romanticized the essense of car crafting, but the reality is that car crafting is more complex than your description. Sure, folks pony up cash for good parts which are now plentiful for reasonable cost, but they also craft their own. For example, I bought my subframe connectors from Global West, primarily because it would've cost more for me to buy the suppplies and tools needed to engineer and build 'em myself. However, rather than overpay $135 for a tranny bracket, I built my own for $35.

I still believe there are more of us than there are of them, but I also think there is a place for all of us on the scene.

[SHANE 73Z]

Is Car Crafting Dead?
-Long Live Consumerism, Die Red Neck GearHeads!
-This guy is crying sour grapes - he can't afford a "Cool Car"
-Long Live true Car Crafters, Die Yuppie Scum!
-I am tool and I want to see if I can get flamed on my second post at a forum I VOLUNTARILY JOINED!!!


I dont know why you are here but I can assure you there are more hands-on guys here than you think. I know I may not post a lot but this kind of statement about a group of people I am proud to call myself part of made my blood boil.

I personally work out of a one car garage (with gravel floor) and a gravel driveway. I have personally had to keep the mods to my car at a bolt on level simply because when my car is undriveable for any reason it sits outside.

So lets see....
Tremec install in the gravel (3 times - wrong tranny twice)
Entire interior replace & install in the driveway
Front brake upgrade in the driveway
Shocks & Swaybar install - take a guess
Canton road race pan install - yup driveway too!!!
Up coming 4 wheel disk install - sorry still here

Car Crafting is DEAD.......yeah OK cause working on this thing is like going to an F'in tea party.

Shane

[chicane67]

Go Shane......Go Shane......Go Shane......its your birthday........its your birthday......

Nail on the head brother. This individual just needs to take his misunderstood liberal, confused conservative view point and wake up to the fact that this site is comprised of cats who still bust knuckles on their own rides....... and that it is not comprised of a bunch of checkbook writers, that most assuredly he hangs around.

I feel ya jecrioni, I too have put much thought into exactly what you are pondering. I just threw all that crap out the window and stuck to my guns. I an not a checkbook guy, but their money is green and pays for my parts and tools to make my own junk......

Come out to Black Rock or ElMo. I am sure you will feel reminisent and have your past handed back to you.

But I should warn you, dont bring your prozac induced crying here by posting some crap like that.....especially with it being your second post and all. It is more excepted elsewhere.

Better yet....go post this same thing over on cornercarvers and see how it will light the nights sky. Yeehaw

[Steve1968LS2]

I don't mean that in a patronizing way, but rather an acknowledgement of the some of the truth found in your statements which has been hashed and rehashed. Certainly there are some shop built/big coin/more money than time cars among the folks that post here. However, there are lots and lots of enthusiast/home garage built cars too.

You've romanticized the essense of car crafting, but the reality is that car crafting is more complex than your description. Sure, folks pony up cash for good parts which are now plentiful for reasonable cost, but they also craft their own. For example, I bought my subframe connectors from Global West, primarily because it would've cost more for me to buy the suppplies and tools needed to engineer and build 'em myself. However, rather than overpay $135 for a tranny bracket, I built my own for $35.

I still believe there are more of us than there are of them, but I also think there is a place for all of us on the scene.

This is true.. when I built my 67 Camaro in the 80's there were not that many "off the shelf parts" for it.. well that and I worked at Sears so I had no $$$.. So I made stuff and was creative. Now I can afford to buy better parts and have some work farmed out to specialists but I still agonize over every detail and try to figure out a better way to do something or come up with something innovative.. to me that is what car-crafting is all about.

Oh, I have the knuckle scars to prove I've done my time wrenching stuff together..

Besides, his post is lame since I find this site to have a higher ratio of gearheads than most sites.. Nothing wrong with having a car built to fit your "vision".. It takes all kinds to make the world go round

[68BNUT]

I actually thought the first paragraph was pretty cool, I like the analogys. Its too bad he started a flame war on himself, If you look in his VBgarage hes putting Corvette Irs in it, looks like a sweet install. But im with you guys, sure I probably dont have the skills like some of you do or the check book either, but I know im sitting here with por-15 on my arm (for the past week!!) and have been told if I ruin one more pair of good work jeans shes hiding my shop light for a month.

I remember when I was 16 and had a 71 Monte that would do low 12's in the 1/4 but it would splash you in the cab driving in the rain through the floor board!! Well now I can "Kinda afford" some mods and upgrades so heck yeah spend away! And one day I just hope im in good enough shape to buy a 50k car and drive it like I stole it!! Oh and Im sure Ill be trying to get some bolt on mods for it too...

What it comes down too is were all in different stages of our life and car building abilities, sure im glad i get dirty and bust a knuckle or two to make my car better. But I know someone on this board who just bought a new copper camaro and damn if im gonna say hes not a car guy!! actually I want him to be my new best friend and bring it to Texas and give rides!!!!!!

[Steve1968LS2]

What it comes down too is were all in different stages of our life and car building abilities, sure im glad i get dirty and bust a knuckle or two to make my car better. But I know someone on this board who just bought a new copper camaro and damn if im gonna say hes not a car guy!! actually I want him to be my new best friend and bring it to Texas and give rides!!!!!!

I heard that guy is jerk and is just plain trouble.. ;)

I just couldn't get myself to go to "paint prison" again.. Hell, in a year you wont recognize that car -- and Texas might work if they run the power tour through there and out west again.. hell, you can even drive it

[68BNUT]

I heard that guy is jerk and is just plain trouble.. ;)

I just couldn't get myself to go to "paint prison" again.. Hell, in a year you wont recognize that car -- and Texas might work if they run the power tour through there and out west again.. hell, you can even drive it

I followed all the work you did on your last car and was shocked when you sold it! DRIVE IT!! Ill pass on that I wouldnt want to get drool all over your interior, but id definetly be first in line to check it out!

[RatMalibu]

I'd tend to agree with all these guys......so far I've done everything to my car except sew up the seats....only paid for that because I have no other need for a commercial sewing machine lol

I got the thing in highschool and its taken me 12 years to get it this far while life happened all around me.......if I had the money there are things that I'd do differently, but the way it is....its still mine. Just because someone is not mechanically inclined doesn't mean they should go buy a new Vette....thats not the way things work. imo as long as the person that owns the car ends up with something they can enjoy then thats "Car Crafting" no matter who built it

enough babble....bed time for me

[socalfandabodys]

Im 18 and spent the last three years building my 68 chevelle in the back yard of my parents home. The whole car was stricktly funded by me parting out cars 1 at a time. This helped learn more about my car and at 15 starting a frame off resto can be pretty intimidating. Car Crafting includes everyone from young guys with Subaru STI's to guys driving 32 ford rat rods and everything in between. I get alot of crap for younger guys for driving an old car everyday with no a/c and no radio because I cant afford vintage air yet. I shaved the firewall with a home made plate and tried to make the car handle and look as good as I could on a parts car to parts car basis. I then have the older guys in street rods asking why my daddy was letting me drive his car. These same older guys say that the younger generations arent into american cars anymore. Well I got news for you, my parents werent even born in this country. I am still into building cars. I know how to spot any older and newer car. I still know the beauty of a 6 inline or a 472 cadd engine. I love the way a 302 in a 69 camaro sounds at 6000 rpm. I know how to change points evn though I run an Hei. As soon as I cna afford efi I am getting rid of the edelbrock air gapper and speed demon carb.I only wish I could tell him that I drove to Victoville to trade a chevelle fender and $300 for an old 396 short block. Or the time I sprayed my chassis in the garage with a cheapo spray gun. Or the time I waited for it to rain so I could get half off at ecology so that I could score a set of " Fancy electric bucket seats for $40". Trust me if it werent for guys that Had cars built that cost over six figures I wouldnt have anything to aspire to. So thanks guys for building budget cars and thanks guys for having paying big bucks to have a really awesome show cars built.

[ZZ430]

jcerioni, surely you're not talking about me.....I build my own cars.

I'm also in the business and I cash checks from people who can't, for one reason or the other, build their own.

Generalizations like your above "poll" are not a good way to get welcomed to this board. You really don't know who you're talking to.....and we have no idea who you are either....note that everybody else that replied to this has a completed profile....

[yody]

how about option D;
i am a scumbag and could really use some one on one time with Dr. phill, my car is an extension of my penis and it is very very small, i hate all those guys with really nice cars that can afford to pay people to build them, even though if i had the money i would be in the same boat, my, what a hipocrit i am, oh well i have only posted twice on this board, woops a rerun of Jerry Springer just came on...gotta go.

BTW i have built every single piece of my car on my own, with my own tools in a 2 car garage that isn't even at my house, with all my own money, and i am only 24. Have fun staying stuck in the past, what you described was how i worked when i was 16. that isn't car crafting...that is car-halfassing. Most of the people here are pretty intelligent and detail oriented, not your basic run of the mill backyard mechanics...look at all the professionals and enspiring pros. A lot of people here are innovators and run high end shops. Sorry if we are the cream of the crop and our cars reflect it.

[MrQuick]

Tell you right now, if I had the money, i'd have someone eles build my crap.
If you don't have the knowledge or tools your just a guy that rips into a car,starts to do body work, disassembles the engine, and then lets it sit for years under a gall darn car cover. As long as they are built and enjoyed who fricken cares who builds them. Just do it. doin it!

And Tody, what the hell are you talkin about, you are a little prikk!

[JJSmitches]

I don't agree with his rant, but I think its fun to think up some alternative names for these people he is complaining about. How bout some of these...

Car SHAPER
Car PLANER
Car PLOTTER
Car ARRANGER - my fiance arranges flowers...florist
carIST
Car STYLIST

eh, it made me laugh anyway.

[vanzuuk1]

I love to look at the high dollar cars , usually the owners are just nice guys with nice cars.
I do what i can on my car , anything i cant i have friend who is a gm mechanic do . sometimes i even pay him! I am probably in the lower range of income on this site , but i dont feel any negative vibe from the guys with big coin.
I wish you were there when i had my rims preheating in the kitchen oven so i could paint them in an unheated garage without dripping.
What would really motivate you do announce your presence with those comments? Sometimes we seek attention however we can , hmmm?.
i have to go becuase i didnt build this computer so i am not qualified to enjoy it.

[vanzuuk1]

ps I usually spell better but I am in a rush to go to work so I can pay Foose to build me an entire fleet of cars.