2nd Gen Rear Torque Arm Suspension

[wickedred]

I recently posted this over on NastyZ28.com

I would like to get some opinions here too.

For what it is worth... I recently sold my 2002 Z28 in favor of buying a 1970 Camaro. Big Plans were the name of the game. A full DSE front suspnsion, DSE rear suspension, Wilwoods, Booze Wheels, the works. All $35k of it that I had added up before even thinking about the drivetrain.

Change of plans. I have searched and only found a limited few examples of a true Torque arm suspnsion setup for the 2nd F-Body. I dont really see what is hard about making this work.

What I am thinking is using a bolt in 9" Housing from PTFB. Making my own LCA's that will attach from the front leaf spring eye to the factory leaf spring pad on the housing. Building a fully adjustable Panhard Bar. QA1 Coil over shock conversion. Then the fun part of building the Torque Arm and custom mid chassis mount crossmember.

This is nothing that is really new to me. I fab custom turbo setups for a living. I have done the chassis and suspension thing too. I have all the tools needed at my disposal.



If done right a torque arm rear suspnsion will yield great handling, ride quality, unlimited stance, the ability to hook insane power, ect.... I have done all of the above with the 4th Gen F-body platform. I dont see a reason it cant be done on the 2nd Gen platform, and for less than a comparable G-Bar setup.

I will keep updates to this endevor in my Project thread as well as here.

I am open to any opinions, suggestions, or what ever.

[gmcdermit1]

I would go for it and just start building. I have often wondered why no one is doing a set up like this in the 2nd gens. I have seen great success in many 3rd and 4th gen cars with this set up and it's so simple. It doesn't have to be thousands of dollars of parts slammed together to make something work. I like the idea of build it yourself much better. Too many people get wrapped up in who's got the better "BOLT ON". Build it! And then post some pics!

[wickedred]

I would go for it and just start building. I have often wondered why no one is doing a set up like this in the 2nd gens. I have seen great success in many 3rd and 4th gen cars with this set up and it's so simple. It doesn't have to be thousands of dollars of parts slammed together to make something work. I like the idea of build it yourself much better. Too many people get wrapped up in who's got the better "BOLT ON". Build it! And then post some pics!

That has been my point in thinking about this all along. I would love to have a full DSE or Lateral Dynamics rear suspension. However, if I can save a huge sum of $$$ building it my self then I can apply those funds to other aspects of the car.

The Measuring will begin today to see what I am looking at in materials.

[oestek]

Very interesting... please keep us posted!

[CRead01]

I pretty much came to the same conclusion as you but I decided to go the triangulated 4 link route. I started building one about a month ago after a deal fell through on a used alston setup.

I would love to see progress. keep us posted.

[gmcdermit1]

That has been my point in thinking about this all along. I would love to have a full DSE or Lateral Dynamics rear suspension. However, if I can save a huge sum of $$$ building it my self then I can apply those funds to other aspects of the car.

The Measuring will begin today to see what I am looking at in materials.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!

[Kenova]

I've often thought about doing the same with my Nova.
With all of the after market 12 bolt and 9" rears out there for third and fourth gen F-bodies, I would build a rear using one of those centers and use a fourth gen torque arm. The lower links are already out there. They are commonly used in most four link conversions and can be bought separately from http://www.scandc.com/index.htm . All that is left to fabricate are the front torque arm mount and a panhard rod.

Ken

[killer69]

just wanted to let you know that the bandit we had at SEMA had our prototype second gen torque arm with a 9" in it and we have been continuing the testing and the ride is amazing, the handling is also very good so far. the packaging is VERY tight up under the car and we had to section the floor to fit the exhaust and TA in the trans tunnel. but it can be done and we have been considering it
check out the pics of it on our web sites

[wickedred]

I am not to hip on the BMR style lower mounted TQ arm designs. Sure they offer a bolt on design with minimal modifications need to the floor.

I am not looking to market a rear suspension setup. I am busy enough doing strictly turbo setups.

I will be building every bit of the rear suspension setup in house on my own. I full well expect to have to modify my tunnel for proper TQ Arm design. That aspect doesnt bother me at all. For me its all about the challenge and fact that I can build it for a third of what I can buy it for.

[MonzaRacer]

Not impressed with torque arm setups, they create packaging issues i n my opinion.

[gmcdermit1]

Build it and they will come!!! It will rock and for a fraction of the cost you can buy a SYSTEM for. I am not against the quality suspension kits out there, just their prices. I know a lot of research goes into some of them and that is what your actually paying for, but as a fabricator by trade steel definately doesnt cost that much and I can't see paying that much! Besides the fact that having a one off custom set up is cooler anyways!

[WS6]

I've thought about designing a decoupled torque arm setup for my TA. I've got loads of research to do before I even begin. The idea is a great one and I'd recommend you look into it instead of just an adjustable torque arm. Keep us updated as I'd really love to see this come together.

A toqure arm setup does cause packaging issues but so do a 3 and 4 links depending on the car.

Oh and KY, what's your knowledge on turbo systems for LT1s? I plan to build one eventually for mine. Nothing radical but I'm also looking for people that know what they are doing for future reference.

[wickedred]

Not impressed with torque arm setups, they create packaging issues i n my opinion.

That they do. I however am far from a purist and will take the plasma to my car where neded.

[gmcdermit1]

Cut and hack......it's only metal,nuts and bolts!!!!!

[wickedred]

Well as it stands right now I am going to bypass the TQ Arm rear suspension for a while. I am very busy at the shop and dont have the time to spend designing the rear suspension, much less working on the car. I will probably end up with Calver Split Mono leafs and clatrac bars with leaf sliders. Build the car into a nice street strip car for the local cruises. Thast if I dont decide to sell it all together after the new Passenger quarter and roof skin are installed.

[gmcdermit1]

Well hopefully it all works out, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Priorities can be a real pain sometimes!

[BMR Tech]

I am not to hip on the BMR style lower mounted TQ arm designs. Sure they offer a bolt on design with minimal modifications need to the floor.

I am not looking to market a rear suspension setup. I am busy enough doing strictly turbo setups.

I will be building every bit of the rear suspension setup in house on my own. I full well expect to have to modify my tunnel for proper TQ Arm design. That aspect doesnt bother me at all. For me its all about the challenge and fact that I can build it for a third of what I can buy it for.

Fabricating your own one-off setup can be the most rewarding experience when all is said and done. The wow factor and feeling of self-accomplishment is hard to match. If you have the capability, by all means go for it. You are a rare breed and that fact alone is why there are suspension companies like us out there who specialize in it.

Our kit was developed for those that don't have this capability and want a truly bolt-in, no compromise solution to a custom fabbed setup. You would probably be surprised at the cost you will have in everything once you start adding things up. You are right, tubing is probably the least expensive portion of the kit. Things like double adjustable Afco shocks, billet sliders, billet prop shafts, rod ends, tube adapters, etc.....and lots of labor are where the costs come from. The labor portion is where you will save money, both on development and fabrication. Have fun...we did!! (not meant to be sarcastic, btw)

[BMR Tech]

I've often thought about doing the same with my Nova.
With all of the after market 12 bolt and 9" rears out there for third and fourth gen F-bodies, I would build a rear using one of those centers and use a fourth gen torque arm. The lower links are already out there. They are commonly used in most four link conversions and can be bought separately from http://www.scandc.com/index.htm . All that is left to fabricate are the front torque arm mount and a panhard rod.

Ken

Interestingly enough, this is what our initial development was based upon. Being a Moser and Strange dealer, we originally planned on using new bolt-in 4th gen F-Body housings and developing the kit around them. For somebody with fabrication experience this would be a slam dunk. Fab up a rear shock crossmember with a panhard mount, a torque arm and crossmember, some lower control arms and build a new driveshaft tunnel and you have a custom setup! This would work well for a one-off setup but the more we looked into this from a production standpoint, it became obvious that it wouldn't work for us. We wanted a bolt-in kit that didn't require any fabrication. We could have accomplished this for the shock crossmember but their is no chance of fitting anything but a driveshaft in that narrow tunnel so major floorpan surgery becomes necesarry. Additionally, our 10 and 12 bolt kits are designed to work with the factory rearends which kept the price more reasonable since you don't have to purchase a rearend with the kit (unless you switch to a Ford 9").

[Kenova]

..... That sounds like encouragement to me.

Ken

[wickedred]

I have not 100% given up the idea of this whole project. I have been focusing on the body work the car needed. I have looked at several designs for the rear suspension. It is going to be a time consuming deal.

I run a turbo shop during the day. The Camaro has been a late night project. I am still in the midst of pulling it off though. I want a car that is useable on all fronts. The street, road course, and strip. I am not looking to excell in one more than the other. I have thought several times about a 4th Gen Moser M9 since I can buy it at cost. It saves alot of time. It is almost a no brainer.