In depth Truckarm Article

**gchandler** · 03-10-2005

I conducted an interview with Steve from HTH and have posted it up on my website. http://hotrodhomepage.com/?p=12 I hope to expand this area of the site to include interviews with other vendors that cater to the pro-touring, multi-dimensional muscle car enthusiast. Take a look and give me feedback.

**JMarsa** · 03-10-2005

Sweet! Nice work!

--JMarsa

**wendell** · 03-10-2005

WOW! Some very bold statements.

"...Leaf springs are the cheapest and least effective way to get these three things done."

"improvements to braking by as much as 80ft with the same brakes."

I've never heard of a race car running it that didn't have to. I've also seen too many leaf sprung cars that SCREW to dismiss the leaf spring.

Gchandler,
Great interview. Its very cool to hear from venders in a more developed forum than a few words in an add. My oppinions aren't even worth 2 cents but the information from your site is very valuable. I look forward to reading more.
Jensen

**bnoon** · 03-10-2005

Very fun read. Added your page to my favorites! Love the HTH truck arm cars!

dennis68 · 03-10-2005

I agree, some very bold statements. Spoken like a true business man selling a product. He forgot to mention that NASCAR does not run them by choice but due to the rules. He also failed to mention that older Trans-am cars ran the truck-arms but anybody who was competitive toward of the end of that series was running 3-link.

I always like reading about testing where the starting point is 30 year old worn suspension. How about some tests with freshly rebuilt suspensions vs. the truck-arm set-up.

**gchandler** · 03-10-2005

The braking claim was actually as tested by Motor Trend, I have the video and article I can dig them up. It was on an el camino.

I also have video of Boyds 56 from American Hotrod braking down after one pass down the quarter mile. I need to get that digitized and up on the site.

**trapin** · 03-10-2005

Does anyone have any pictures of what a truck-arm suspension looks like on a first gen. I gotta tell ya...I've been hearing a lot lately about this truck-arm stuff but I've never actually seen what it looks like or seen how it works.

**Steve1968LS2** · 03-10-2005

Originally Posted by trapin

Does anyone have any pictures of what a truck-arm suspension looks like on a first gen. I gotta tell ya...I've been hearing a lot lately about this truck-arm stuff but I've never actually seen what it looks like or seen how it works.

I think there are pics on Roberts site:

http://araweb.logicmate.com/robert/index.html (edit: not working now?)

The article was a good read.. I wonder what David P. would have say about the leaf spring comments.. hmmm..

I like the truck arm stuff.. it's nice to have options

Oh, you could try the hot rods to hell website.. I think they have first gen pics..

**gchandler** · 03-10-2005

Here is are some pictures of a camaro setup:

http://www.hotrodstohell.net/in_the_...ing_camaro.htm

**StRacerDuke** · 03-11-2005

It’s got holes. I was a moderate fan of the HTH truck arm suspension, but after reading this article I’m even more skeptical than before. Something about this just rubbed me the wrong way and sent up ‘warning flags’ in my head. Let me break it down and see if I can figure out why:

“For all around live axle suspension Truckarm is the only viable option.”
Hmm, bold statement by a salesman. This argument can be much more effective if credit is given to the competition. It creates integrity in the claim. “Only available option” is flat incorrect. After talking with Bruce from Grigg’s Racing in Sonoma I can say that he’s simply outclassed in proven design, effectiveness, and real world numbers for a live axle suspension.

“Leaf springs are the cheapest and least effective way to get these three things done.”
Is the cheapest and MOST EFFECTIVE way to MASS PRODUCE vehicles, or multi-billion dollar auto makers would have chosen other options. I find it striking that his basis for the argument is saying that stock production suspension were designed for performance usage when it was designed to appeal for universal needs. From this initial premise he chooses to prove his case by comparing stock production suspensions to his aftermarket kit. Apples to Oranges. A bully can pick on little kids in the sand box, but what happens when he is matched to kids in equal size and stature. Social psychology usually says they get a little ‘nervous’.

“Soon the inaugural test drive, just pulling out of the driveway I could feel the difference.”
If you are an average hot rodder/car crafter who was starting your own business to build suspension kits AND wanted to make some really bold claims what empirical evidence would you use to back it up? A. Engineering specs to prove that the suspension points are in the correct position. B. Real world race/event results or testing showing percentage gains over pervious designs or stock set up. C. Seat of your pants ‘you can really feel the difference’ claims. Personally, I would like to use all 3, but I would attempt to prove A, then B, followed by C.

Hmm, I think I figured it out. Having been jaded by the advertising media growing up I can say that it has become quite easy to pick up on unsubstantiated claims that don’t quite add up. Maybe that’s why this little read rubbed me the wrong way.

Just for arguments sake, I’m not an engineer by any means, nor can I tell the difference if I saw a ridiculously binding suspension compared to a perfectly designed set up. I’m just a 24 yr old car crafter with a little more than average experience. I’m sure that HTH has done their homework and their design is sound. They probably wouldn’t still be in business if they weren’t. Would I consider using a HTH suspension set up? I would look into it if I saw some type of numbers to back up the claims. I guess my point here is just that this article really doesn’t help to win me over on the HTH T/A setup.

Just my 2 cents as usual.

**gchandler** · 03-11-2005

StRacerDuke, thanks for the solid feedback. I presented the article in the form that the interview was conducted. It was intended to give a different view of the company and the products.

I do have access to actual real world testing data that was performed on the system that I can put together and post on my site, possibly over this weekend. Today I am meeting up with some of the guys from Chevy High Performance that were also involved with the testing and I will ask if it is ok for me to use their numbers.

Let me know if there is interest in this sort of information.

**StRacerDuke** · 03-11-2005

I would love to see the numbers. Thanks for the clarification on the presentation of the interview. Much appreciated.

**JMarsa** · 03-11-2005

Although I've already decided to try this set-up (purchased but not installed) I think there just can't be enough info out there for gear heads to access to make thier own decisions. Please post all that you can.

--JMarsa

**Beige** · 03-11-2005

Think of this more as a counter-point than an argument, please

Originally Posted by StRacerDuke

“Leaf springs are the cheapest and least effective way to get these three things done.”
Is the cheapest and MOST EFFECTIVE way to MASS PRODUCE vehicles, or multi-billion dollar auto makers would have chosen other options. I find it striking that his basis for the argument is saying that stock production suspension were designed for performance usage when it was designed to appeal for universal needs. From this initial premise he chooses to prove his case by comparing stock production suspensions to his aftermarket kit. Apples to Oranges. A bully can pick on little kids in the sand box, but what happens when he is matched to kids in equal size and stature. Social psychology usually says they get a little ‘nervous’.

While what you said may be true, Steve was talking about how he first decided on the truck arm suspension, and at that time, there wasn't any real aftermarket suspensions out there like there are now, so he compared it to what was around. And multi billion dollar automakers did choose other options, which he listed. Those options were usually compromised for packaging reasons. Though he could have chosen one of those designs and improved on it, he chose one he knew worked well and could apply to his car himself.
As a side note: You could have argued that Winston cup, Bush and IROC cars are pretty much the same chassis with different engines and bodies.

“Soon the inaugural test drive, just pulling out of the driveway I could feel the difference.”
If you are an average hot rodder/car crafter who was starting your own business to build suspension kits AND wanted to make some really bold claims what empirical evidence would you use to back it up? A. Engineering specs to prove that the suspension points are in the correct position. B. Real world race/event results or testing showing percentage gains over pervious designs or stock set up. C. Seat of your pants ‘you can really feel the difference’ claims. Personally, I would like to use all 3, but I would attempt to prove A, then B, followed by C.

You don't really see any suspension companies giving out engineering specs, it would be nice, but they've got to protect their product. Also, would most people know what to do with engineering specs anyway?
The "feel the difference" statement was more in the context of how he got into the truckarm suspension business (the majority of the article seemed to be, really), so while track tested numbers would have been great (he did give them on the braking part, though) it wasn't necessary for the point he was making.

Just for arguments sake, I’m not an engineer by any means, nor can I tell the difference if I saw a ridiculously binding suspension compared to a perfectly designed set up. I’m just a 24 yr old car crafter with a little more than average experience. I’m sure that HTH has done their homework and their design is sound. They probably wouldn’t still be in business if they weren’t. Would I consider using a HTH suspension set up? I would look into it if I saw some type of numbers to back up the claims. I guess my point here is just that this article really doesn’t help to win me over on the HTH T/A setup.

Just my 2 cents as usual.

Would it intrigue you enough to look into the matter more, though? Maybe call them up and ask a few more questions? That's really all you can hope for when doing most interviews. Maybe articles like the one he did will get him coverage in more magazines that do testing.

**Protour_Pinto** · 03-11-2005

Hey Geoff, After riding in Alans car, I would have to say that it is a BIG improvement over the leaf spring set up he had in the '38.

I keep telling him to enter it in the RSE but he seems too busy thrashing it on the street. Some day he will get around to puttin an interior in it. I think it would be a good car for PHR. The outside is pretty enough.

That being said, My next daily driver is going to be "Truckarmed".

The only real downfall is having to run the exhaust around the arms. Most people have side exits but Alans 38 had enough room to run alll the way back.

The car that Steve built for the "Weezer" kid was a great car, until it got rearended. I think Studio Autobody is taking care of that now.

**trapin** · 03-11-2005

gchandler......do you have anymore pictures of that Silver State Classic Camaro? I am intrigued by those Wheel Vintique billet ralley's. Are they 18's or 17's on that car. I would really appreciate it.

Sponsored Links

dennis68 · 03-11-2005

17's

**Mean 69** · 03-11-2005

I guess we are all entitled to our opinions, eh? As I read this, it comes across more as an opinion than fact, which is good, because much of it is very slanted, and some of it flat wrong (in my technically based "opinion...").

Mark

**StRacerDuke** · 03-11-2005

Hey Beige,

You’re points are taken very well. Thanks for the input.
You know when you read something and it makes since, but it just doesn’t feel right for some reason? I just got that visceral response even though I could completely relate.

If I were building a 1st Gen I would totally do the research, call them, and heavily look into the HTH option. I think I’ve even suggested it a few times here (last time being to Steve about a set up for a 66-7 Nova).

You’re right that sometimes that’s really all you can hope for in an interview. I hope that they do get some press out of this and even some magazine testing. That would be awesome, not just for them, but everyone associated with PT. Maybe after PHR gets done testing the different front suspension options they could do a rear suspension comparison, hint hint.

**PAI Racing** · 03-11-2005

"He also failed to mention that older Trans-am cars ran the truck-arms but anybody who was competitive toward of the end of that series was running 3-link."

"...toward the end of the series..."? Not to be a ball-buster but last I checked, Trans-Am was alive and well. http://www.trans-amseries.com/ See them at Long Beach April 10th.

Sorry, you hit on a sore subject with me. Good luck TK.

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