Electric Cars: I don't get it.

[Boyd]

If the green crowd had their way, we'd all be driving electric vehicles. But I got to thinking, do they not realize that switching from a conventionally powered car to an electric car simply transfers the burden on our natural resources from oil to coal?

If 2 out of every 3 people drove an electric car, it would place a HUGE demand on our electrical grid. There would have to be hundreds, if not thousands, of new power plants built. And with the nations self-imposed ban on nuclear power, that would mean millions upon millions of more lbs of coal being burnt and sent into the atmosphere. Have they seriously not thought about this?

[Damn True]

"Green" has nothing to do with logic or actual results and/or consequences. It is two things and two things only:

a) It makes people feel better about their narcissism
b) It is an elaborate wealth redistribution play

[maldo]

yes this is also the big problem with going green .... also what about people who don't have garages to plug into (like people who live in high rise builds or have to park the car out on the street ...

[fishtail8]

They also forget about the long process to make the batteries for the electric car, the cost of replacement when they finally die, and the cost of disposal of the dead ones. I hope they thought to make the batteries recyclable...

[maldo]

Also why would the car company's or the oil companies want you to change. Think about it if they were to switch over to this type of car (like the volt) they would loose a ton of money on replacement parts that go along with a internal combustion engine set up.

[James OLC]

From everything that I have seen, read, and been told the TOTAL environmental burdon of the electric car will far outweight that of it's internal combustion counterparts. Not only is it a redistribution of wealth (well, semi redistribution) it is a redistribution of liability.

At best it is another example of a poorly thought out knee jerk reaction to current sentiment. But by the time they reach acceptability in the market (if they ever do) the people who spearheaded their use will have long faded back into the woodwork.

[James OLC]

Also why would the car company's or the oil companies want you to change. Think about it if they were to switch over to this type of car (like the volt) they would loose a ton of money on replacement parts that go along with a internal combustion engine set up.

Do you think that electric cars won't break? If you want to play conspiricy theory I would counter that car companies would want to make the switch because it will give them exclusivity over their repair. No more shade tree or independant mechanics (for the electrics), once again, when your car breaks you will have to take it to the dealer for service.

Oil companies could not care less either way.

[69LT1Nova]

If the green crowd had their way, we'd all be driving electric vehicles. But I got to thinking, do they not realize that switching from a conventionally powered car to an electric car simply transfers the burden on our natural resources from oil to coal?

First, you would need to do a study on the new electricity demand created by the cars, and weigh it against the costs involved with using diesel/gas. Many of the "greenies" argue that electricity is a more efficient way of creating energy. By having a highly efficient power plant make the energy, overall energy consumption is reduced.

Most of the energy consumed by electric cars would be on the "off" hours for the grid (car charging at night while people are asleep), so that alone would offset a lot of the burden on the grid.

Coal is used to produce most of the electricity in the US, but there are cogeneration plants that use natual gas/steam, and of course, hydroelectric and nukes. Electricity here is cheap in the NW due to hydro power.

So which is it? Coal is worse than using gas, or is gas worse than using coal? There is a lot of debate out there on this - a quick Google search will provide years of reading.

Even after saying all this - I'm with Damn True. Being green has nothing to do with logic and the environment. It is all about feeling good about yourself for *gasp, forgive the sin* consuming natural resources. :bsjerk:

[Derek69SS]

b) It is an elaborate wealth redistribution play

BINGO!

"Green" is the new "Red"

[BADNBLK]

"Green" is the new "Red"

[maldo]

Do you think that electric cars won't break? If you want to play conspiricy theory I would counter that car companies would want to make the switch because it will give them exclusivity over their repair. No more shade tree or independant mechanics (for the electrics), once again, when your car breaks you will have to take it to the dealer for service.

Oil companies could not care less either way.

I completely see your point and i was not trying to say they would never break but you are looking at the complete restructure of the auto industry which we will see allot of resistances....

With the electricity car i truly believe its to mask the redistribution of wealth from the oil companies to the companies that make the power per coal and nuc (but my problem if we increase the demand either way what do we do with all the nuc waste etc ....)

[maldo]

BINGO!

"Green" is the new "Red"

Agree 100% ........... i am all for green but give a real solution to the problem not half ass baked plan that only solves a very small part of the renewable part of energy... its sort of like trying to pay peter to pay paul sooner or later you have to pay up .......

[Jim Nilsen]

If the green crowd had their way, we'd all be driving electric vehicles. But I got to thinking, do they not realize that switching from a conventionally powered car to an electric car simply transfers the burden on our natural resources from oil to coal?

If 2 out of every 3 people drove an electric car, it would place a HUGE demand on our electrical grid. There would have to be hundreds, if not thousands, of new power plants built. And with the nations self-imposed ban on nuclear power, that would mean millions upon millions of more lbs of coal being burnt and sent into the atmosphere. Have they seriously not thought about this?

You have to think in the now moment instead of the typical early 70's rhetoric that leads you to believe that. The oil companies have got you believing in fossil fuel and the electric company warns you of having to rebuild the grid but the reality of the matter is that you can plug in to solar panels and charge your car with no fossil fuel from either of them. There are people doing this right now,today , the future and you are told a lot of things that keep the technology from getting to you in your consciousness. The thought of powering your car from the sun is the future if you become a bit more conscious of what can be done. We can all put power into the grid at our point of use and you don't have to make a new and bigger grid. In fact it creates less of a demand on it since the power is mostly being made and used by you and doesn't have to travel for miles to get to you,especially if you and all of your neigbors were putting into it and making their own. You really can make your own power and enough of to make your life and the world better.

The air powered car that can be charged with a small pump powered by a solar panel is also very cool.

Stop listening to the politicians and the nay sayers and really look at what real people are doing and what new companies are trying to bring to the table and all of the old beliefs vanish with the companies that brought us the auto industry and the need for oil.

Electric cars are BADASS quick and fast if built right and are the future of major people transport.

The horse and buggy died hard too!

[68Formula]

It's all fun and games until the batteries need to be replaced.

[Jim Nilsen]

"Green" has nothing to do with logic or actual results and/or consequences. It is two things and two things only:

a) It makes people feel better about their narcissism
b) It is an elaborate wealth redistribution play

Two points that really say a lot.
As long as we can just keep people seeing themselves doing what they are told to be the truth and saving grace and doing the way that is being taught it really makes it hard to let the truth get out.

I see it all as more of a redistrubution of manufacturing and energy supply and the wealthiest people want to keep control of it as it shifts which keeps the new tech from getting to us that really makes the difference in the future of us all. They definately have a hard time with you and I making our own electricity and just plain make you want to believe that it can never be cost effective and make sure that they try to make it that way in the propoganda.

When enough people realize what can be done if we mass produce electrical generating devices for the home owner to make it really affordable for everyone it will be like owning a cellphone.

We need the truth to be told to America about green energy and a lot of what we hear is nothing more than doom if we don't do with the help of the big industries that already supply us on one side and people who want to just build new power source that they can charge us like the utilities do. They want you to have a monthly bill no matter if you make your own power or not and that is why it is a pain to get hooked into supply the grid and get paid fairly for the power you can make. They want you dependent on them and that is the problem if you make and meet your own energy needs, and a whole bunch of people already do.

[shmoov69]

"Green" has nothing to do with logic or actual results and/or consequences. It is two things and two things only:

a) It makes people feel better about their narcissism
b) It is an elaborate wealth redistribution play

Quoted for truth brotha!!!

[fishtail8]

If you want to get a tree hugger stumped for a bit, mention that your "restored" old car is 75% recycled. I got a guy at a function with that one, and it's true for the most part. Everyone of us reuses most of what we can during a build. Alot of our engines, transmissions, and rear ends are rebuilt pieces. That's not recycling and being green? Then I got started on their Prius they just bought....

[Jim Nilsen]

It's all fun and games until the batteries need to be replaced.

Ive heard that about turbo's too!

[Twentyover]

I completely see your point and i was not trying to say they would never break but you are looking at the complete restructure of the auto industry which we will see allot of resistances....

I think you're reading alot more into the change for manufacturers than is actually there. Rather than building in IC engine, you build a battery pack and electric motor. Some old tooling is scrapped, replaced by new tooling. Think of the change from carbs to FI, just on a grander scale. A completely mechanical device was replaced by an electromechanical device. Most of the car features, assemblies, etc would remain. Maybe more like going from a body-frame to a uni-body car. Maybe order of operation changes, but it will still be built on an assembly line, just like cars are today.

The real challenge, IMO, will be getting relibility up to market requirements

I'm assuming that the "we will see allot of resistances.... " is an unintended pun?

That said, I believe that energy density of chemistry is required for acceptable range and refuel/recharge times. Maybe light hydrocarbons near term, hydrogen latter, then on to dilithium crystals....

[Tom Welch]

Hydrogen solves several problems with current electric powerplants. And, we can recycle some more, conversion from gasoline to hydrogen is possible and the most practical at present. Electric cars are pretty good but cant compete with gas when it comes to long distances and refueling times. Hydrogen competes on an almost equal footing with gas in these respects. You dont need to burn a bunch of coal to produce hydrogen. I like Hydrogen more that batteries.