Project Bad Penny - more changes because done is boring

[Mkelcy]

The dropped spindles..

Since the arms are bolted to the hub area, and the hub area is moved up 1.25" then the arm must move down 1.25" to make up the diff and keep the tie rod parallel with the lower control arm.

So nothing wrong with the basic geometry of the 21st Century subframe, simply a change necessitated by the other changes you're making.

[T_Raven]

I just wanted to share a thought I had. It seems like every time some one posts a thread about building their own front subframe some one always tells them to just buy a kit from some one. While most aftermarket subs are great products, this thread is a prime example that just because a pro fabricator built it doesn't mean it's ideal for every car. If a person has the skill to design a suspension for their specific car then chances are pretty good they'll get better results that just buying a subframe and doing their best to adjust some one else's design to fit their car.

[Mkelcy]

I just wanted to share a thought I had. It seems like every time some one posts a thread about building their own front subframe some one always tells them to just buy a kit from some one. While most aftermarket subs are great products, this thread is a prime example that just because a pro fabricator built it doesn't mean it's ideal for every car. If a person has the skill to design a suspension for their specific car then chances are pretty good they'll get better results that just buying a subframe and doing their best to adjust some one else's design to fit their car.

I'm not sure this is what I get from this thread. It seems to me Steve is simply fine tuning his suspension (much like you tune an engine) to make it better at what he wants it to do, rather than "adjust[ing] some one else's design to fit [his] car." So far as I'm aware he's done nothing to either the LD 3 link or the 21st Century subframe other than change some of the bolt-on peripherals.

[Steve1968LS2]

So nothing wrong with the basic geometry of the 21st Century subframe, simply a change necessitated by the other changes you're making.

Nope.. the sub is fine. This is only to offset the drop spindles.

And the drop spindles aren't even there to make my car lower, just to increase my shock travel.

[Steve1968LS2]

I'm not sure this is what I get from this thread. It seems to me Steve is simply fine tuning his suspension (much like you tune an engine) to make it better at what he wants it to do, rather than "adjust[ing] some one else's design to fit [his] car." So far as I'm aware he's done nothing to either the LD 3 link or the 21st Century subframe other than change some of the bolt-on peripherals.

Correct, I've nothing to the LD setup except add a rear sway bar. The 21st centruy frame is great, just tuning it to my specific goals. technically I can now say I have C6 front suspesion, but since it's geometrically the same that's just a marketing deal.

Besides, when cars are "done" they arn't as much fun.

[HectorM52]

I'm not sure this is what I get from this thread. It seems to me Steve is simply fine tuning his suspension (much like you tune an engine) to make it better at what he wants it to do, rather than "adjust[ing] some one else's design to fit [his] car." So far as I'm aware he's done nothing to either the LD 3 link or the 21st Century subframe other than change some of the bolt-on peripherals.

It's funny you start with "I'm not sure this is what I get from this thread." You assume that's what HE got from the thread. And it's probably not.

I think he's bringing a little "baggage" from other threads where someone asks about a subframe then gets a response about purchasing a certain prefabbed sub.

I have no opinion either way I just wanted to point that out. The biggest issue is that none of these three posts belong in this thread at all!!! Sorry Steve, proceed with the awesomeness!!

[T_Raven]

The biggest issue is that none of these three posts belong in this thread at all!!!

My bad. All I was getting at was that to get the geometry he wanted at the ride height he wanted, steve had to buy very expensive spindles and have new steering arms fabbed. Where as if a person built their own perhaps they could use the factory spindles and adjust the mount points on the frame to get the geometry they want. I'm not saying the aftermarket ones are crap and everyone should build their own. But like I said, just because pro fabricators made it doesn't mean it's going to be perfect for everyone. Just food for thought for those who would like to build their own, and for all those who say they should just buy one.

[MuscleRodz]

My bad. All I was getting at was that to get the geometry he wanted at the ride height he wanted, steve had to buy very expensive spindles and have new steering arms fabbed. Where as if a person built their own perhaps they could use the factory spindles and adjust the mount points on the frame to get the geometry they want. I'm not saying the aftermarket ones are crap and everyone should build their own. But like I said, just because pro fabricators made it doesn't mean it's going to be perfect for everyone. Just food for thought for those who would like to build their own, and for all those who say they should just buy one.

Steve did not have to do anything he is doing. Car was working fine for how 99.5% of the people would drive their car. Steve is in that 0.5% that is looking for every tenth of a second out of Penny to keep it on top of the podium. It is the price you pay to play. Incremental gains with exponential dollars.

[T_Raven]

Steve did not have to do anything he is doing. Car was working fine for how 99.5% of the people would drive their car. Steve is in that 0.5% that is looking for every tenth of a second out of Penny to keep it on top of the podium. It is the price you pay to play. Incremental gains with exponential dollars.

Dude.....to get what HE wanted he had to change parts right? I'm not saying Steve should have done anything different. Just that this thread is an example that aftermarket parts will sometimes need changes to suit someone's needs. And if someone can make their own parts to suit their needs and spend less in the process, then good for them. And I'm sorry for bringing "baggage" from other threads lol.

[T_Raven]

technically I can now say I have C6 front suspesion, but since it's geometrically the same that's just a marketing deal.

Besides, when cars are "done" they arn't as much fun.

So I see in the previous pics that the c6 LCAs look different and you said the geometry is the same. But even with the same geometry are there differences with the other parts between the C5 and C6? thanks

[Payton King]

were in business. The standard frame that Steve has and the 1 inch drop version which I have. At the time Steve did not want the drop version because it required raising the tunnel for trans clearance...which he ended up doing anyway.

It sounds as if you are going to build you own frame, which is a huge undertaking and I commend you on that...but I think you will find after it is complete you will be fine tuning and making adjustments to get it just right. Just because something works on paper does not mean it transfers well. How many race teams have the best of everything including engineering and still end up testing and changing things in their design?

Back to our regularly scheduled program.

Just like stated, Geometry is the same on C5 and C6 stuff including the uprights. I believe the C6 upright has a little more beef where the brakes mount.

[rat_rod_russell]

Just like stated, Geometry is the same on C5 and C6 stuff including the uprights. I believe the C6 upright has a little more beef where the brakes mount.

Upper A arms too?

[GMracer]

Looking badass!

[rat_rod_russell]

Time to dig into the front suspension.. first up is rebuilding the control arms..

Pete over at Competition Specialties hooked me up with a set of C6 control arms so that my car wouldn't have to be down as long. Same geometry, but the lower arms are much nicer than C5 in terms of how they look.

That answers my question
-Russell

[lt1chevelle]

looking good steve, do u plan on taking the car to the show at the end of may for the autocross in pleseanton

[AButler]

Does Bad Penny ever get dirty???? Great looking suspension though.

Pics of finished rear suspension:

[Steve1968LS2]

Yep, Penny gets dirty all the time.. I just keep her tidy

[JustinB]

Steve, just noticed the black CA license plate and was wondering where in the heck did you get that. Did you paint it or is there someone out there that makes them? Ever get hassled for it?

[Steve1968LS2]

www.licenseplates.tv

Nope, not hassled.. it's my real number and all.

My friend has been running it on his '65 Buick for years with no problems .. your results may vary ;)

[67speedfreak]

Steve,

Check your PM's

Thanks