Project Bad Penny - more changes because done is boring

[Cris@JCG]

Steve- Looks good.. I am glad to see that those mounts worked out for the shock reservoir mounts.. We made those to hold Aeromotive fuel filters & now have another use for them..

New 8300 RM shocks are now installed and ready to rumble.

BIG thanks to the guys at Global West (Doug and Eric) who worked their asses off to get these on and get them on right. The front was pretty straightforward but they still had to make some spacers and shims in thier machine shop.

The rears were a bit more challenging since we were moving to the upper shock mount. Doug didn't like the load that would be placed on the bolt in that location so he and Eric came up with a way to brace the bolt off the roll cage. Double shear for all you nerdy engineers out there. The cans are in the trunk so adjustments will be a snap.

Took an initial guess at the settings and so far I'm pretty happy. The car road a ton nicer on the 40 mile drive home and the 215/91 is one of those plate freeways which can be a real kidney killer. We have tons of compression and rebound and overall everthing looks good.

Rear upper shock mount and canister mount: (Thanks to Cris at JCG for the super cool reservoir mounts.. they worked perfectly.

[Damn True]

So what did you do there? Am I seeing a structure added to the top of the aft x-member to allow a raised upper shock mount?

Not sure it even applies to me since your installation is so different from that of James and myself.

[The WidowMaker]

how much room between the watts attachment and your exhaust? that looks to be your high side mount, and it looks like youve contacted it before. any issues or anything youre going to change?

[Steve1968LS2]

how much room between the watts attachment and your exhaust? that looks to be your high side mount, and it looks like youve contacted it before. any issues or anything youre going to change?

Enough room.. the scratches are from taking off and putting on that exhaust section. I'm actually surprised it all fits so well.

[Stupidnewbie]

I think I saw you drive past me a few weeks back. You were going west on Jamboree in Irvine. I love Bad Penny!

[strtlegal]

Steve I think alot of people dont realize how important good shocks are, especially when there valved correctly, there is alot to custom shocks. There is so much cool stuff when it comes messing with shims and pistons, learning about free bleed, it will consum you..lol

But once everything is said and done and its dialed in correctly they can really make your car very well balanced.

To me they are worth every penny....As long as you get to use them and enjoy it..

[Steve1968LS2]

I think I saw you drive past me a few weeks back. You were going west on Jamboree in Irvine. I love Bad Penny!

That would have been me.. our office is on Alton and Jamboree.. The 241 is like my own little autobaun.. except with cops.. ;)

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Thought I would add this to the build thread...

Dialing in the new Penske shocks.. money well spent. Car was good, but too stiff.. Mary and Dave kept driving it and saying "LOOSEN IT UP!!".. at one point Doug at Global West un-did one end of the bar.

Earlier in the tests...



Better if you actually go to YouTube and up the resoluting.. top speed on the course was over 70..

Here it is after we added in a little rebound.. seemed to be the right mix.
And if you like your Mary Pozzi a bit more on the "rough" side then this is for you..

PG-13 actually on further review it might be R rated.. lol

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve I think alot of people dont realize how important good shocks are, especially when there valved correctly, there is alot to custom shocks. There is so much cool stuff when it comes messing with shims and pistons, learning about free bleed, it will consum you..lol

But once everything is said and done and its dialed in correctly they can really make your car very well balanced.

To me they are worth every penny....As long as you get to use them and enjoy it..

Yea, I'm a firm believer in this now. I was talking to the Penske guy and he was saying it's funny how guys have no problem dropping $5k on a set of wheels but they freak over $3600 for some killer shocks.

In our slalom tests we dropped about 3/10ths of a second.. that's a HUGE amount and we annialated the old magazine test record for a car on street tires (220 tw).. To me that proves that the right shocks can make a big difference (or the right shocks with the right settings)

And a gratuitous beauty shot...

[strtlegal]

Alot of people sacrifice performance and driveability for looks...Typically to long of a shock with zero bump travel.

Are you running a variable rate coil or linear?

[Steve1968LS2]

Alot of people sacrifice performance and driveability for looks...Typically to long of a shock with zero bump travel.

Are you running a variable rate coil or linear?

Linear.. so far we are at 500 front and 275 rear.. car rides nice.. not Lexus nice, but not bad at all for a "sports car".

We have tons of travel in both bump and droop. Took some doing, but it was worth it.

[strtlegal]

Typically on these cars it's never a bolt in deal unless you want stock travel..The trick things with these shocks is you can make the bodies short and try to cram every bit of shaft and piston into it giving you max up travel. Somtimes using different rod ends can yield a little more travel..

That spring rate isnt bad all, It's actually smart, use a fairly light spring and let the shocks actually work, especially valved shocks. I do know that linear springs can allow you to work with more with your bumpstops and the shock to control the rebound. I'm sure they stepped up your compression a little bit as well.

The biggest trick is to not have to much valving so your shock doesnt hydro lock on you when you hit a nast pothole. You still to have some fluid pass through those piston ports in order to absorb thost types of hits...

Heck there is alot to the pistons inside of these things let alone valving..I know Penske builds some killer stuff but Bilstein makes some trick internal parts to there high end racing shocks..

It's nice to see some one tear into the shocks and fine tune them on a car..You never see this...What to set another trend..

BTW what did you do with your Bilsteins?

[Steve1968LS2]

Typically on these cars it's never a bolt in deal unless you want stock travel..The trick things with these shocks is you can make the bodies short and try to cram every bit of shaft and piston into it giving you max up travel. Somtimes using different rod ends can yield a little more travel..

That spring rate isnt bad all, It's actually smart, use a fairly light spring and let the shocks actually work, especially valved shocks. I do know that linear springs can allow you to work with more with your bumpstops and the shock to control the rebound. I'm sure they stepped up your compression a little bit as well.

The biggest trick is to not have to much valving so your shock doesnt hydro lock on you when you hit a nast pothole. You still to have some fluid pass through those piston ports in order to absorb thost types of hits...

Heck there is alot to the pistons inside of these things let alone valving..I know Penske builds some killer stuff but Bilstein makes some trick internal parts to there high end racing shocks..

It's nice to see some one tear into the shocks and fine tune them on a car..You never see this...What to set another trend..

BTW what did you do with your Bilsteins?

Yea, there's some crazy stuff inside these shocks.. you really have to see the pistons to appreciate all the engineering in them. I shot some for the shock story I will be doing.

Bilstiens are just hanging out in my garage.. good shock but I needed the adjustability.

And I agree that shocks are where people leave a lot of performance on the table.

[Gitter Dun]

Yea, I'm a firm believer in this now. I was talking to the Penske guy and he was saying it's funny how guys have no problem dropping $5k on a set of wheels but they freak over $3600 for some killer shocks.

In our slalom tests we dropped about 3/10ths of a second.. that's a HUGE amount and we annialated the old magazine test record for a car on street tires (220 tw).. To me that proves that the right shocks can make a big difference (or the right shocks with the right settings)

And a gratuitous beauty shot...

I find it funny that the suspension work on your car has created more roll and the work I have been doing on my car has been toward taking some of the roll out of it.

I imagine roll being good in auto cross but am curious to see how it translates to the road course.

[Gitter Dun]

Here's a picture showing why I am so intimidated by the roll......It may not look like much but it feels like a lot

[musclecarmatt]

bad penny is just plain sinful!

[bonecrrusher]

Hahahah stick you b*!

Nice vids, love the action shot!

[Steve1968LS2]

I find it funny that the suspension work on your car has created more roll and the work I have been doing on my car has been toward taking some of the roll out of it.

I imagine roll being good in auto cross but am curious to see how it translates to the road course.

It won't matter on a road course.. roll is only a problem when that roll upsets the suspension and causes the tires to lose contact with the asphalt.

At this point the car is very compliant.. the weight transfer is good and the roll actually helps the car stick. That's not to say that would dial in a little more stiffness for the road course. But typically it's easier for an autocross car to move to a road course than a road course car to move to an autocross course. If I can take a 180 fast on an autocross then a 180 sweeper shouldn't be "that" big of a deal on a road course. Although I will leave it smarter wizzards in this area like David Pozzi to give a definitive answer.

Remember when we won optima the first year? At that time the car had a lot of roll (no rear bar) but it held the road.. Now we have that "roll" again but the suspension is able to suck it up and run with it due to the shock travel, shock valving and how the suspension articulates. At least that's my understanding..

I do more autocross than road course work.. but they took all of it into consideration at Pensk and Global West.. we still need to experiment with the roll center (location of my slotted upper a-arms) and the settings on the Watts Link.

I suppose going stiff or going compliant are two different ways to achieve the same result.

[Steve1968LS2]

Here's a picture showing why I am so intimidated by the roll......It may not look like much but it feels like a lot

Like I said, roll can be bad if it screws up the car. Nick said Penny felt way different than all the other cars tested that day.. it just did whatever he wanted. He could tell it was faster since it took him so long to slow down after the last timer. Also, there was a nearly complete lack of tire squeel.

On the autocross our I-pod g-meter had a peak reading of 1.5g.. now that's a peak but I've never had a reading that high without a spinout. We are reviewing Racepak data, but lots of 1.3g constant numbers.

I've been in cars that rolled in a bad way.. no fun at all..

[Gitter Dun]

I dont remember having any tire contact issues with the roll, it just refrained me from pushing the excellerator any more due to being un easy in the seat.

We are alot flatter in the corners now which has given me more confidence on the excellerator.

Looking forward to watching Bad Penny perform on the road course at Buttonwillow.

[RSX302]

Yea, but the story is going to focus more on shock technology and show why the higher end shocks are so damn expensive.. I've really been fasinated by how these function and the tech involved.

As a side bar I will talk about the install on Penny a bit and more on the 2010 since that's more interesting. After all, any monkey with a banana can install a set of shocks so I will show a few tidbits like the double shear deal and the canister mounting.

But I want to focus more on how the stuff works and how a company like Penske comes up with thier valving and how that ultimatly effects how a car performs.

That was the short answer

Oh Yea...shock tech will make you go cross-eyed. We had Penske' on our track cars. We had a big Penske washer stack kit and shock oils...

The short of it I've learned...every spring lb has a spec valve/washer combo it requires for control. (Shock Dyno) The shock adjustments help with fine tuning for the track. The question is: what spring works best for that track and your car... Many possibilities...Good luck to ya Steve..You will be playing with this for many hours...Days..weeks..months