Project Bad Penny - more changes because done is boring

[David Pozzi]

Mike,
The lower plates will get you close but you should aim for too much neg camber with them, then add a small amount of top shims to reduce neg camber and get caster where you want it.

Put your lower A arm bolts in from the front, so you can remove them when the headers are in the car.

We put bolts in the top holes, no studs.
The more I'm around this subframe, the more I like it.
David

[Mkelcy]

Mike,
The lower plates will get you close but you should aim for too much neg camber with them, then add a small amount of top shims to reduce neg camber and get caster where you want it.

Put your lower A arm bolts in from the front, so you can remove them when the headers are in the car.

We put bolts in the top holes, no studs.
The more I'm around this subframe, the more I like it.
David

David: Thanks for the reply. I installed the LCA's using the stock eccentrics today, and realized that the alignment probably could change under heavy loading. Then I saw the Pfadt kit wanted studs for the UCAs and I thought "uh oh." But if the bolts work with the alignment shims that's great.

I was lucky enoguh to have my headers on before I installed the LCAs, so yes, put the bolts in from the rear and they'll be there until you pull the headers.

Do you have any thought on whether using offset slugs for the UCA's might be beneficial - increasing or decreasing camber gain?

[rat_rod_russell]

Mr. Pozzi
I noticed you have the center pivot of the watts link at the bottom adjustment. Would you go lower if you could? why or why not?

[JDP Jordan]

Steve: I was looking at this post again https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...&postcount=141 showing the Pfadt bushings and camber kit and had a question.

The Pfadt site indicates that you need to replace the UCA bolts with studs and then use traditional alignment shims to set caster (and fine tune camber) using their camber kit. Can you also do both just by using the plates for the LCAs?

Hi Mkelcy,

Our Camber kit was designed to use the studs for the UCA. The reason is in racing applications you're constantly changing your alignment for different track conditions as well as other variables. We've gone to studs because the threads into the chassis tend to get stripped when the bolts are constantly pulled in and out; with the stud you're moving the nut on the stud. It basically eliminates issues down the road.

We supply multiple plates for the LCA in our C5/C6 kit, they range from zero notches to 6. You can get pretty close with the lower plates, as David said the shims are there for fine tuning. Another nice thing about the shims is that you can set up your aggressive track alignment using the plates to get you close. The you can add shims to the UCA for a less aggressive street alignment, we usually tape the added shim stack together. When you go to the track and change to sticky tires you simply pull the taped shims out and you're good to go. You will compromise your tow for the street when you do this but it is minimal.

This kit offers a lot of benefits including holding your alignment in place, the factory eccentrics tend to slip under heavy load when using sticky tires or when you hit pot holes!

Please feel free to call or email us anytime, we're always happy to help out with set up questions.

Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley
888-972-2464

[Mkelcy]

Jordan: Thanks for the information. I'm in the process of (I hope) completing a '68 Camaro this year that uses the same front subframe (and rear suspension) as Bad Penny, so I may well be calling you for some front end suspension parts.

[JDP Jordan]

PM checking will happen today.. I haven't really been home much in the last week.. I was busy doing this:

The new ZR1 style hubs are way stronger looking than my old C5/c6 hubs. The flanges are much thicker and the extra material was added to the back of the flange. Bolts up exactly the same. It comes with studs, but I pressed them out to add ARP versions. A highly reccomended part.


Here you can see the Raceseng spindle compared to a stock C5 unit. Much stronger and more rigid, especially in the brake mounting area. There's also a degree of neg camber built in and of course the 1.25" drop.


The lower spherical bushings were easy to install. We also ditched the eccentric bolts with Pfadt's camber kit. This way under hard cornering the alignment wont change. The kit comes with serveral sets of plates.


The uppers were bolt-in so long as you have a lathe, bridgeport mill, saws-all, grinder, dremel and a host of other tools. But they are in and should work great. To be fair there was nothing wrong with the parts, just had to work to get them bolted to the 21st Century subframe.


Here's the final deal all installed:


Now for the bad news... Since the drop spindles lower the lower CA in relation to the wheel I can no longer run my 17" wheels, so I will have to get a set of 18" track wheels. Oh well. I also had to clearance the lower control arms just a touch so the 18's wont rub under very hard turning. I will also be adding some stops that Kyle at DSE reccomended to limit the turning just a touch.

The good news: Even with my car lower the lower control arms are now perfectly parralel to the gound and the car feels amazing to drive. In my opinion it has the nicest most crisp and responsive steering I've ever experiences. The ride feels about the same, but I'm sure it's a touch more harsh over hard transitions. To me it's worth it for the trade off.

Steve,

It turned out AWESOME! The Orange looks good on Bad Penny! Hopefully we'll run into you at some point, I want to get a close look at the car! It's SWEET!

[Steve1968LS2]

Ok, three new projects to get done before she ship back east for the summer..

1. T56 Magnum
2. AFCO radiator with built in oil cooler
3. STACK gauge package

Will also finish my fire system, finally do my lightweight audio system and get real alignment.

I've been working with Classic Motorsports (Classic Chevy 5-speed) to try out the new T56 Magnum (TR-6060).

The first thing we wanted to find out was how it differed from the traditional T56 in regards to installation. I imagine that this was about the first swap done since Tremec just recieved these a couple of weeks ago.

The Magnum is a LOT like the T56, but there are quite a few small changes. A couple of hte larger one is the placement of shifter and the overall length.

The shifter is about 2.5 inches forward, so I will need to rework my shift handle to keep the ergonomics right. The trans is few inches longer, so my driveshaft is out getting shortened.

Nonetheless, contrary to what many people thought there was no need to relocated or modify the trans crossmember.

We did need to mill out a couple of places on the Quicktime bellhousing, but I've been told by Classic Motorsports that these modifications will intergrated into future kits. Still, if you have existing parts you will need to make the mods.

The best thing about this trans is the gear ratios.. I can finally ditch that damn .50 6th gear without having cruddy 1st ratios...

All the plugs are identical although some are in different spots. The skip-ship solenoid is gone (although the spot for it is still there) and the VSS signal plug is on the other side of the trans. The reverse lock-out solenoid has been flipped 180-degrees. These last two changes means we have to slighly modify (ie. lengthen) the harness.

Other than that the initial install went very smooth. There will be a story on this in an upcomming issue of Camaro Performers, but ask any questions and I will try to answer them. Oh, and big thanks to the guys at Classic Motorsports for making this so easy.

[67speedfreak]

Penny looks soo bad ass !!!!!

[Steve1968LS2]

Finally had a chance to shoot a "before/after" deal on the lower control arm angle.

Much improved with the Raceseng drop spindles and the steering arm reworked by Jim Pettigrew (guy who designed the front subframe).

Before:


After:

[claytonisbob]

So the car is now a bit lower? How much ground clearance do you have?

Looks good btw!

[Steve1968LS2]

So the car is now a bit lower? How much ground clearance do you have?

Looks good btw!

It's a "bit" lower, maybe a quarter inch. The main goal was to have the car at a nice stance and still have the lower control angle right.

I have quite a bit of clearance.. the lowest part of the car is where the exhaust dips under the trans cross member.

[Bjkadron]

NICE! looking good! Any noticeable difference on how it drives?

[CraigMorrison]

Steve - Have you ever done a retail tally on all the freebies/deep magazine deals on this car? Those spindles, bearings and bushings must cost the normal guy $$$$!

Looks great BTW - Can't wait to get a report on how those uprights work out.

[compos mentis]

These ingenious changes are something I've only seen on maybe one other persons car, but that was a special case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P46bQ...eature=related

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve - Have you ever done a retail tally on all the freebies/deep magazine deals on this car? Those spindles, bearings and bushings must cost the normal guy $$$$!

Looks great BTW - Can't wait to get a report on how those uprights work out.

No, I don't look at reciepts.. it's too scary. lol

The bearings arn't much more than the inferior C5/c6 units.. the spindles are about $1500 retail. Considering the stock spindles are at least $500 new from GM that isn't a huge amount more considering what they bring to the party.

So far the stuff has worked out great. The car felt killer on the autocross at Del Mar.

[Shiro666]

Wow.

I want to make out with those spindles.

Perhaps it's just me, but I imagine most exotic car owners that have shared a track with Penny have reoccuring nightmares of Mary Pozzi running them down like a Cheetah chasing a toddler.

Looks boss, Steve.

[Steve1968LS2]

Thanks to the guys at Prodigy Customs and the folks over at Forgeline Penny now has a replacement set of wheels since the 17s no longer fit.

Now I have to decide if these will be my "show" wheels or my "track" wheels.

They are 18x12 and 18x10 SP03s with a stepped lip. Finish is gunmetal centers (and inner hoops), brushed outer hoops (clear coated) and titanium fasteners.

[zbugger]

My lord... I can't wait to see those on the car. They're beautiful.

[Krazed]

I would put those on the fireplace mantle........

and then take them out for a drive once in a while.

[Steve1968LS2]

Test fitted them on the car today... happy to report that Forgeline nailed the offsets. Tomorrow I mount some tires. (BFG KDWs)



Close up of the front. We all voted at BOS and these will be the new "show" daily wheels and the WC3s will be the new "track" wheels.