1940 Plymouth Mustang 2 Front Suspension

[SicMonte]

A friend of mine has a restoration shop and his latest project is a 1940 Plymouth. The customer wants it to be modern but still original...ok.

Long story short, my buddy offered me a night time/weekend job working there. I have day time job/career so this is my fun time pretty much. He ordered a full mustang 2 front suspension for it from Fat Man Fabrications. My first task is to take apart the old suspension and put this new one on.

Has anyone done this type of swap and what should I be expecting when I tackle this? I start on it next week.

Anything would be appreciated.

[SicMonte]

anyone???

[silver69camaro]

There are a million ways of doing this. Some folks have even done it with the engine still in the car.

Give us an idea of how you want to do it, and we'll go from there.

[SicMonte]

Well the thing is...I have no idea on even where to start. The motor will be out of the car and the suspension will be all taken out. Im just trying to get a heads up on what I am about to undertake.

[gearheads78]

measure 3 times and then measure again before cutting and welding

[silver69camaro]

Ok, so motor is out and suspension is off, and I assume the fenders are off too.

Now, mock up the car with wheels and tires at the right height and stance that you want. If the car is going to have some rake, make sure it's mocked up somewhat accurately.

Remove all the old suspension components and brackets. You will probably want just the bare frame rails, but tack in a piece of tube at the front so the rails don't warp during welding. You may just be able to install the core support and use that as a brace, but I don't know how that car is built.

Now is the time you can start mocking up the new suspension. I assume FatMan gave you dimensions you can get everything set up to. Suspensions have a "sweet spot" that you want to have at ride height, and you'll have to take into account the loaded tire radius (usually the no load radius minus 5/8"). You can place your upper control arm on the frame relative to where your spindle center is via Fatman's dimensions, and go from there. It's not totally necessary to get everthing to the 1/64", but be as accurate as you can.

[SicMonte]

ok here is a simple question. What makes a mustang 2 suspension a mustang 2 suspension??

[wiedemab]

The fact that it utilizes the geometry and components from Mustang II and/or Pinto.

[SicMonte]

The fact that it utilizes the geometry and components from Mustang II and/or Pinto.

and I take it that those components are optimum geometry and all? I am fairly new to this. Are most suspensions based off the mustang 2 set up?

[wiedemab]

I wouldn't say optimal anything. A little history and others can chime in with corrections and additions.

Once upon a time way back (like late 70's ;) ), there weren't any aftermarket front suspension kits available for street rod applications. Most people used dropped straight axles etc.. Some creative hot rodders saw that the Mustang II was a viable track width etc. for many of the cars they were working on, and they were cheap and plentiful. I think others used Volare front clips and people continue to use Camaro/Nova front clips. As the Mustang II became more popular some aftermarket companies copied the geometry and began selling kits for street rods and so forth. Originally there weren't any improvement made to the geometry and they utilized the OEM spindles, R&P etc. Dropped spindles came along for a lowered ride height, but didn't do much for the geometry - maybe made it worse. Even at that the suspension was adequate for cruising and was certainly better than a straight axle.

Some aftermarket companies began to tinker with the geometry to make improvements, but most retained the factory geometry.

I'll use Art Morrison as an example. Their IFS is not a Mustang II suspension. It is designed around a taller Wilwood spindle (which can be used in a stock MII setup BTW), but because it has a similar look and uses a Mustang R&P (newer though), many people call it a Mustang II. Matt (right name?) I know this is pet peeve of yours.

I believe Heidts, TCI and others offer the MII in its original configuration and also offer upgraded setups like their SuperRide etc. I don't know of the specific geometry improvements made in the upgraded kits though. I believe that Fatman utilizes stock MII geometry.

Hope this helps. Again - please feel free to add and/or correct. I was barely born when the MII craze first began!

[silver69camaro]

I'll use Art Morrison as an example. Their IFS is not a Mustang II suspension. It is designed around a taller Wilwood spindle (which can be used in a stock MII setup BTW), but because it has a similar look and uses a Mustang R&P (newer though), many people call it a Mustang II. Matt (right name?) I know this is pet peeve of yours.

Ha! It is a pet peeve, I didn't know anybody knew that. We used to use a Mustang II spindle, but that was about it as far as similarities. The geometry of our basic IFS setup is in no way related, and for a good reason.

It's not that Mustang II systems are bad, because they are a huge improvement over, say, a stock suspension for a '49 Chev. We just wanted something better, to give a customer a "new car" feel.

One big reason for the popularity for the use of Mustang II stuff is the strength of the spindle. The darn thing is bulletproof; we set the car's weight limit using these (read: US made spindles) at around 5000lbs...they're really tough! The Wilwood spindle is the same, and in fact, we have that spindle on 6000lb armored vehicles that have pass destructive and track tests with flying colors.

Off the soapbox now.

[SicMonte]

Now that is what I am talking about!!! Good responces! Now I am well educated and actually feel confident with this porject. I will update this with pics as soon as I start. Thanks again you all!