home brewed suspension advice

[mayhem148]

i plan on building this road course car that i have had up my sleeve and need advice on building my front susp. i plan on doing my own work but need a basis. i would like to use the mustang 2 for the simple means of getting parts. on the other hand u have the viper and corvette front end. i am trying to stick with the budget theme to an extent. i know viper parts are expensive but i have read that it works like know other. the vette has plenty of parts everywhere. i really just need to know if the you can make the mustang 2 handle the extreme.

[Rhino]

the C5/6 components have been proven on here time and time again. On the other end of the spectrum you'll find the Mustang II.
Doing a quick search of the forum will give you gobs of reasons as to why it's not as good of an idea as it seems.

Even with the best parts, it requires the best planning and execution to make it work. A well thought out stock type setup will run circles around an improperly set up C5. If you're serious about building a suspension, plan on spending quite a bit of time reading. I remember seeing a thread not long ago about everyone's favorite books.

[6'9"Witha69]

What type of car?

[Lowend]

+1 it's kinda hard to advise without knowing the platform

[mayhem148]

dont laugh but its a 1980 dodge aspen. the entire front end is junk. (your probably telling yourself that the whole car is junk) it has the weirdest torsion that i have ever seen and its coming off. none of the componets from a abody will work. however i did just find out that magnum force builds a front end for it so we will have to see.

[79T/Aman]

Mustamg II was not designed for heavyer cars, plus it's nearly impossible to design a good geometry with those parts on larger cars, as far as using Viper or Corvette parts that will not automaticly make it handle like either, you need to design the suspension and get the geometry designed correctly and see what control arms and spindles will accomplish your goal

[Lowend]

I think you are probably biting off a project you won't be happy with...
But the stuff you need is here
http://www.stockcarproducts.com/ftsusp.htm

[mayhem148]

THANKS lowened. i have seen that site once before but couldnt remember it. i need it for parts for the dirt track cars i will be building for a friend as well as my race car. and i understand were your coming from about using this car as a project. but it will be a race car only. all go no show. the aspen was used in nascar in the 80s. chrysler even sold a richard petty kit car. (it was still ugly as sin). but the car that catches my attention is the imsa/roadrace kit car.

[Lowend]

... that does look pretty cool

[79T/Aman]

now that's cool looking..

[JMarsa]

[/quote]
Is that your car?

BTW, I dig these cars, I'm working on a 4th gen Nova, they were used in NASCAR too.

--JMarsa

[mayhem148]

i wish it was my car.
i got to start from the beginning. but you got to start somewhere right.
i picked a grandma owned 80 model aspen for 400 bucks. (i think i bought it cause it was so cheap with no idea what i was going to do with it.) then i put it in my barn. i came across a few pictures of this car and came to a conclusion. i think it will make a good race car.(maybe street car) it will take a while since i have a harley and dakota i am building along with my 67 coronet.

back to the suspension, i think i will make most of my own stuff. things like the spindles and ball joints i will buy even though i could probably make the spindles i will leave it to the pros. that has to be pretty precise. most will be gm componets since parts are readily available. (it would probably be a good idea to document every part for the future breaks and repairs.) the spindles i will go with will have adjustable kingpin angles. which is what i have been looking for. i will build my own A-arms. i guess the ideas are a start right.

[JMarsa]

Depending on your budget I would look hard at designing you're own using off the shelf circle track parts. They are a good bang for your buck. You just need to have a good design and the ability to build it. Another choice would be if there's any circle track shops in the area you might be able to get a road course stub built for 1/4-1/2 of what the subframes are going for from the big shops. Since you will have a full cage you can make it modular.

--JMarsa

[silver69camaro]

Years back we used the Mustang II spindle but our own geometry. We've set records with that system, and is still to this day one of the best aftermarket suspensions out there. It can be done for sure.

The Wilwood spindle is probably your best bet. It's similar to the Mustang II but is 1/2" taller, which works wonders for reducing roll center migration while still keeping a great camber gain. Something to thank about, anyway.

[mayhem148]

i do think i need to go with as many off the shelf parts as possible. it is a race car and it will probably get crashed. and if it does i dont want to have to worry about building a arms and stuff like that. it just make sense. you need to be able to put it back together as quickly as possible. i think i will buy the left and right side assemblies and just build my subframe. i am going to use a bunch of circle track parts since it is cheap. uhh cheaper. my only deal is that i want as much adjustment as possible. which is what everybody looks for i guess. i do agree that the mustang 2 can hold up. ive seen the the M2 fronts go through alot of abuse on dirt ovals. besides that they are used to often and have proven themselves to be worthy.

[Rhino]

i do think i need to go with as many off the shelf parts as possible. it is a race car and it will probably get crashed. and if it does i dont want to have to worry about building a arms and stuff like that. it just make sense. you need to be able to put it back together as quickly as possible. i think i will buy the left and right side assemblies and just build my subframe. i am going to use a bunch of circle track parts since it is cheap. uhh cheaper. my only deal is that i want as much adjustment as possible. which is what everybody looks for i guess. i do agree that the mustang 2 can hold up. ive seen the the M2 fronts go through alot of abuse on dirt ovals. besides that they are used to often and have proven themselves to be worthy.

While I agree that the components have proven themselves, I would disagree that you should make wholesale use of the mustang II front.
As was stated earlier, the geometry can be drastically improved upon.

[jaybee]

Silver69camaro "Years back we used the Mustang II spindle but our own geometry. We've set records with that system, and is still to this day one of the best aftermarket suspensions out there. It can be done for sure."

And I notice that your weld in crossmember hub to hub package is within about $400 or less down to practically identical in price as compared to the "street rod" vendors. That's an absolute bargain for the engineering required for the results you get. For so little difference in price I'd feel stupid if I went to the large dude for my ifs.

[mayhem148]

i never thought about that JB. it is lighter. and in my book lighter is faster. i think i can piece part the stuff i need together. im sure i will be on hear again in the future to get more help.
yeah the factory componets of a mustang 2 could use better geometry, but i am sure someone out there makes the solution. i will just have to do some shopping. or just get on here and ask everybody where to buy parts.

[gtoroadracer]

I built my front and rear suspension from scratch using the factory frame that I modified to accept the new suspension. Take it from me it takes a long time to do this. I am very happy with the results the car handles beyond my expectations. If you are looking for a quick and easy solution they do sell complete Nascar front clips that you might be able to connect it to the rest of the chassis/body. Someone mentioned earlier designing a car to handle is a lot more involved than just bolting on parts that work on other cars and hope they will work on your. He is absolutely correct and I wish it was just that easy. The length and placement of control arms between the mounting locations and pivot points play a very crucial role on your caster/camber curve. Your shock and spring location has to be determine to get a good spring/wheel rate. Spindles also help in the suspension design that will tie in the height of you upper ball joints which once you start connecting all the lines that will determine your front roll center. In the past I have used some basic computer software programs that you can lay out and test your suspension before you weld everything up. I wish you Good Luck it is great that you are doing something different I did and look how it turned out. I love it when people say it can not be done and you prove them wrong. Most people can not look outside the box, a true car guy not only looks outside the box but he puts wheels on it and make it go faster.lol