Wilwood vs. Baer

**Nutsy** · 03-03-2005

Ok guys,

Need opinions/experiences here. Perferably more experiences than opinions ;)

I can get the Baer Extreme Plus for roughly $2200 on the GP on this site, but i also have a contact to get the Wilwood Superlite 6 Big Brake Front Hub Kits for my 69 Camaro for substantialy less.

Here is a link to the Wilwood Kit: http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Pages/01/index.asp

Any comparisons? Is there anything i am getting with the Baer kit that I am not getting with the Wilwood or Vice Versa?

I hate squeeky brakes. And i hate Calipers that discolour. I used to have Wilwood 4 pistons on my VW and they did both.

Thoughts??

Trev

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**Flyboy** · 03-03-2005

Trev, I too have looked in to both kits. The Wilwoods seem to be the much better deal normally. The only downside to the Wilwood kits is that their calipers come with no dust seals from what i've read. The Baer kits are supposed to be geared a little more towards the daily driven vehicles that see more wear and tear on the streets, whereas the Wilwoods are geared a little more towards racing applications.

But i'll tell you what. I know a couple of people that use Wilwood brakes (one for circle track stuff, the other actually on his street car), and they both say the quality of the product is top notch.

**LTorres** · 03-03-2005

Wilwood 4 sure but I'd have to agree with Flyboy the Wilwood calipers do not on any application I've seen come with dust boots, however I've never seen or heard of any issues with premature failure's, even with daily drives. But most importantly the calipers from Baer in the GT kit only use 2 piston's on the same inboard portion of the caliper and rely on the mechanics of a sliding rail to apply pressure to the outboard pad...Hence just one more thing exposed to the elements to hang up or bind later. I know of another company that can custom build a Wilwood kit to your specs. ASK and ye shall recieve...

**justanova** · 03-03-2005

I have been on the fence about the same thing for a while, and finally decided to buy the wilwood's, it just seems like you get more for you money. I ended up getting their sl6 front kit, just got it today, and I must say the quality looks to be excellent. It will be a while before I get to actually use them but if they perform as good as they look I will be extremely happy.

hope this helps

**HOT OHC** · 03-03-2005

For what it's worth I too have decided to go with Wilwood.

**TitoJones** · 03-03-2005

Baer is the choice for me. The extreme + has the Alcon 4 piston caliper if I recall.

This is a better system to me:

Tyler

**Nutsy** · 03-04-2005

Tyler,

I would like to know how is it a better system?

Apparently they don't use the Alcon Caliper anymore. They are coming out with their "own" 6 piston.

Trev

**TitoJones** · 03-04-2005

Well, right off the bat look at the rotor thickness between Wilwwod and Baer. The baer rotor has more material there, which equals better heat dissapation, which leads to repeatabilty without fade.

The Baer system also uses complete weather seals, dust boots ect that Wilwood does not, the new Baer 6 piston caliper is a solid monoblock one piece caliper with the option of a removable bridge for quick pad changes.

If price is the main concern, go with Wilwood, if the better system is the main factor, my money is on Baer everytime.
Tyler

**Salt Racer** · 03-04-2005

Originally Posted by TitoJones

...if the better system is the main factor, my money is on Baer everytime.
Tyler

My money is on Brembo or AP.

**Q ship** · 03-04-2005

We need to start banging away at Stoptech to begin making "vintage" kits. Nice balance of cost and performance.

**4MuscleMachines** · 03-04-2005

I have the Baer 13" in my 71 Boss 351 and they squeek alot...drives me crazy! Makes my pristine $45k car sound like an old rust bucket. Just received my 70 Boss 302 with six piston wilwoods and they do not squeek as much, when they do they do not irritate as much as the sound from the Baers. Maybe my mechanic forgot to install/lube or do something to prevent the Baers from squeeking?

**Q ship** · 03-04-2005

What pads are you running?

**Mean 69** · 03-04-2005

All of the "kits" mentioned here are, in my not so humble opinion, either "unworthy," or junk, or overpriced. Let me clarify a bit. I don't have experience with the six pot Wilwoods, but in general, the lower end (i.e. non-race specific) calipers are generally known to flex a lot. Not good. The six pot stuff may be really good if used with a thick rotor, I think the kits they offer use thin stuff? 1.25" minimum thickness with these calipers, please.

Then, there's Baer. The lower end stuff they sell can be made yourself to an equal level of quality, pretty well documented on the Cheap Big Brake threads you can find here and there. The upper end stuff is different, they use the wonderful Alcon "Advantage" calipers, or, rather "did" use them. From what I gather they knocked off the Alcon design (stole it), and are now making their own calipers based upon this design. Sorry, I don't like that type of business. If anyone can substantiate this as false, I'll retract my statement. I am confident I am correct.

Stoptech? Terrific stuff, no question, very high quality, and race proven to say the least. BUT! I have been egging them on to make an early model specific kit with little luck. Bob Lee is the COO, great guy, but they are in the business of addressing higher market demands, which means late model stuff. You can piece together your own stuff with their calipers, possibly even their rotors, but nothing bolt on.

So what do you do?! I found an alternative source for the Alcon six pots, I might even begin selling them myself in the future, and am making my own setup using 1.25" thick rotors from Coleman, and hats from Wilwood (self fabricated brackets, unfortunately). Great stuff, at a fraction of the cost of the upper end Baer kits.

Squealing brakes? Very most likely the pads. There is a huge difference in the overall performance of a given brake system relative to the pads. I'd look at alternatives here before swapping the major components.

Sorry if this sounds like a bit of a rant, but having been down the "what do I do now path," only to find myself re-doing all that I had slaved over before, well, I guess I am a bit biased.

Okay, a small(?) disclaimer here, any of the brake kits with at LEAST 1.10" thick rotor up front, 12" or better diameter, and a decent balance between front rear calipers, etc, will work GREAT on the street with the proper power assist, and the right pads. My applications are a bit more track biased, and demand a bit more, but truthfully, many of the kits out there are marginal, at best, if you plan to really drive the car hard.

Mark

**USAZR1** · 03-04-2005

Originally Posted by Mean 69

Then, there's Baer. The lower end stuff they sell can be made yourself to an equal level of quality, pretty well documented on the Cheap Big Brake threads you can find here and there. The upper end stuff is different, they use the wonderful Alcon "Advantage" calipers, or, rather "did" use them. From what I gather they knocked off the Alcon design (stole it), and are now making their own calipers based upon this design. Sorry, I don't like that type of business. If anyone can substantiate this as false, I'll retract my statement. I am confident I am correct.
Mark

I'm confident that you're wrong but don't really care either way as you're certainly entitled to your opinion,Mark. Baer decided to go in another direction because Alcon's delivery times were really hit & miss and their quality control had started to suffer. Their pricing wasn't competitive,either. As a Baer dealer,I could pretty much count on their other kits to delivered in 3-6 weeks. For their Alcon kits,4-6 months delivery times weren't unusual,at all. Baer's new monoblock calipers are much better,for a lot less money. Make your own judgements.

**HOT OHC** · 03-04-2005

If price is the main concern, go with Wilwood, if the better system is the main factor, my money is on Baer everytime.

Sadly price is always a concern for most of us, well at least me. I agree the alcon 4 pistons are better than wilwoods 6, but the alcons are a grand more, I believe.

**Mean 69** · 03-04-2005

Baer's new monoblock calipers are much better,for a lot less money.

Outstanding! Direct experience. I love it. But, can you please substantiate the comment about "much better?" How much less expensive??? Honestly, I am uncertain to the improvements that have been made to the Alcon design, but I would certainly love to hear the engineering decisions that went into the improvements. If there are indeed technical advantages, well, bring 'em on! We'd love to hear about them. For me though, please, be specific, technically. I should have my Alcon's by next week, honestly, should have had them today but I am still not "quite ready" for them, so we can compare notes directly. It'll be fun. Hopefully educational for others in the future too, myself included, so bring on the "tech."

M

**datsbad** · 03-05-2005

any info on the new Baer 6 pot calipers ? where could i see them at ? and how much ? are they available yet ?

**USAZR1** · 03-05-2005

Originally Posted by datsbad

any info on the new Baer 6 pot calipers ? where could i see them at ? and how much ? are they available yet ?

They were introduced at SEMA. I haven't sold any of them yet so I haven't had a chance to look a pair over,closely. What I have heard,though,is very positive. I'm not 100% since I don't have the price list handy but the new Baer six piston kits are around $600-$1,000 cheaper than the old Alcon kits.

**TitoJones** · 10-04-2005

Originally Posted by Salt Racer

My money is on Brembo or AP.

But he didn't ask about those brands. I was only giving my choice between Wilwood vs Baer, and I chose Baer. If we get to pick from everyone, my $$ is also on AP Racing:

Tyler

**rohrt** · 10-05-2005

Stoptech? Terrific stuff, no question, very high quality, and race proven to say the least. BUT! I have been egging them on to make an early model specific kit with little luck. Bob Lee is the COO, great guy, but they are in the business of addressing higher market demands, which means late model stuff. You can piece together your own stuff with their calipers, possibly even their rotors, but nothing bolt on.

So what do you do?! I found an alternative source for the Alcon six pots, I might even begin selling them myself in the future, and am making my own setup using 1.25" thick rotors from Coleman, and hats from Wilwood (self fabricated brackets, unfortunately). Great stuff, at a fraction of the cost of the upper end Baer kits.

Mean 69, if you put together a kit any chance that it would work with that ATS spindles

TitoJones: Who's upper A-arms are you using in the picture you posted.

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