"Pro-Touring" what it means to me.

[yody]

"Pro-Touring" I will try to define what pro-touring means to me. I am not the best with words, and sometimes have a hard time writing down in words what i am trying to say, but I will try. Their is no true definition of the style of building cars that we call Pro-Touring but I will try to explain what it means to me without sounding to cheesy, and hopefully others will follow.
Pro-Touring is all about the enjoyment, sastifaction, and accomplishment that you feel when you drive an old classic car that you have or had mofified to accelerate, stop, turn, function, and fit like any of the best new age cars. This includes upgrading the motor, transmission, brakes, suspension, interior, wheels, and anything else that your imagination could think of in your car.
There are many different styles of Pro-Touring and everyone does somewhat of their own thing. However it all revolves around the same ideas; making your car the best it can be, and actually driving it; while retaining a comfortable ride, reliablity, and lots of grip around any bend or turn, with a ton of power for the exit! To me a car that spends its life on the lawn of a car show or sitting in a garage is in car hell. All of my cars beg to be driven hard, the engine wants to scream, the brakes want to boil, and the tires want to smoke. Keeping them locked up would be unthinkable.
Some of the modifications that you would find on one of my pro-touring vehicles would be;

1. Upgraded light weight wheels with sticky tires ranging anywhere from 16" to 20" and as narrow as 8" and as wide as 13"

2. Lots of horsepower, whether it be small block, big block, V6, supercharged, turbo, nitrous, diesel, anything as long as it is pumping out the power

3. Upgraded brakes; the car needs to stop as well, if not better than it can accelerate. Brakes that can take the repeated abuse of stopping from 80-100 mph and do it well without major fade is mandatory



4. The Suspension, whether it be a rebuilt suspension with aftermarket bolt on parts with improved geometry and a well thought out combo- to a one off custom CAD built, Analyzed, CNC made, Over engineered custom suspension, that will out grip the best corvette ever built. It has to up to par, It doesnt' have to be high end or really expensive, a well rounded, well engineered suspesnion can be had that will still provide a decent ride and vastly improve the inferior stock supension.

5. Reliablity, the car must be well engineered, everything has to be well thought out and routed, assembled, plugged in, bolted, welded, or screwed in correctly and will not fail with extreme use if needed. If I have to Over do the cooling system, fuel system or electrical, I will spare no expense in the name of reliablity. I will take my car on long hauls and can not risk a break down, due to poor planning or laziness

6. Safety, not meant to be on the bottom of the list at all, but the car must be safe with all of the additions made to it. The 30 year old safety techonolgy that came with my car is not sufficient anymore, with the added horsepower, handling, and braking comes a lot of resonsibilty for myself and others traveling in the vehicle. Safety must always be a primary concern

7. Comfort, I must be able to stay in comfort while traveling in my vehicle. I put all the amenities in my car possilbe, including, AC, heat, power everything, accurate engine monitoring i.e. guages, supportive seats, a good sounding stereo system, and of course a decent ride that isnt' too stiff or hard.

8. Last but not least,Quality/Detail; a car that looks as good as it runs. Nothing is better than working on your car and admiring your craftmanship. Or having others compliment you on your abilities to create something beautiful!

For me, these are the recipes that make a well rounded pro-touring car. There are many versions and styles of Pro-touring like mentioned earlier, but you will notice that they all have similar ideas, and it becomes obvious that the car falls into the pro-touring status. If you are not sure if your car falls into this category, or don't really relate, your probably still have a wonderful car that everyone will still like. Build your car to make yourself happy, not to fit in.

[yody]

BTW, its really late right now, and if I wake up in the morning and realize this is a bunch of cheesy bull i am going to erase it!!

[Poopy]

Sounds good to me...

[edit] I meant your first post [edit]

[TonyL]

that's great yody. One of the most well written descriptions of what pro-touring is about yet.

[68protouring454]

are you high??lol
nice right up, i never knew you were so thoughtfull
jake

[Steve Chryssos]

Any hot rod with a well BALANCED combination of performance and style.

[parsonsj]

Yody,

Nicely done.

One thing I'd add is that the journey is important. By that I mean it is important that the cars be modified to fit this role. I'm building my own ride, and many guys here are doing the same. Nothing wrong with professionally built cars, but I'd say their owners only make a tiny slice of this community.

Some of the pride we take in these cars comes from doing much of the work on them, and as such, they become an extension of us. That's good, but is often why we argue vague points about show vs go.

jp

[MuscleRodz]

Very nice Yody, I would have to pretty much agree.

Mike

[MrQuick]

I think there are some other details that could be added since you could categorize some Hotrods with that description. Other than that, nice cut and paste butt head! .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .............................just kidding

[Steve1968LS2]

Any hot rod with a well BALANCED combination of performance and style.

Yep.. updating the preformance, handling, comfort and yes.. Asthetics of a car that was lacking these from the factory.

An old school friend of mine always teases me and says "what is pro-touring?? sounds like someone that gets paid money to drive around.."

I think we have room here for all the various "shades of grey" known as the pro-touring segment.. hell, I love the variety..

Oh, and well written Yody..

[WELTERRACER]

Well written..


My car has 17' wheels, Supercharged 650hp engine , 4 wheel disc brakes, T56 six speed and tubular rear suspension componates and a spoiler.... AND YET MOST SAY MY CAR ISNT PROTOURING because it is an 1984 Camaro and isnt old enough and it doesnt have A/C... (car wasnt equiped with it)

[Steve1968LS2]

Well written..


My car has 17' wheels, Supercharged 650hp engine , 4 wheel disc brakes, T56 six speed and a spoiler.... AND YET MOST SAY MY CAR ISNT PROTOURING because it is an 1984 Camaro and isnt old enough

I guess they didn't read Tony H's book huh? Even a newer car can be PT if enough upgrades are done...

I think the key is to care less about what "others" have to say and to concentrate on doing what makes you happy

[yody]

well i kind of meant for other people to maybe share their ideas too.

[parsonsj]

i kind of meant for other people to maybe share their ideas too

Don't give up yet. Maybe others will.

Of course when you write 500 words describing something ... it can be hard to add to that.

jp

[yody]

yeah you should see the crap i am capable of writing. You should see my letter of intents when i am trying to get a job, i am "master of bull$%#$" you would never know i wrote it.

[toddshotrods]

I usually try to wait a while and read until I can't contain myself anymore, but I'll try to jump in now...

Any hot rod with a well BALANCED combination of performance and style.

I like Steve's definition, and agree that it really all comes down to the word BALANCE - however - you would have to hold a gun to my head to get me to shut my mouth (stop my fingers?) that fast

To me, a Pro-Touring vehicle is one which is designed and built to do all things well. It has a carefully selected combination of parts, implemented in such as way as to allow the car to handle well, go fast, stop quick, plus be comfortable and pleasing to drive.

A successfully finished Pro-Touring vehicle is one that makes you dread turning that last corner onto your street. At that point it ignites a desperate mental search for a shred of reason or rationality to spend just one more hour in its embrace. If I approach that corner either physically exhausted or emotionally lethargic, and looking forward to my living room sofa, I have not been in my idea of a Pro-Touring car.

On the other hand... If my physical exhaustion is tempered with an increased heart rate, and gobs of rushing adrenaline, I may have been in what I would call a G-Machine or Street-Fighter, which sacrifice some of the comfort and convenience to provide an emotional thrill ride. A final test for this condition would be whether my little emotion man inside is stabbing fists at the sky, while shouting "YEAH!!!"

One thing I'd add is that the journey is important... I'm building my own ride, and many guys here are doing the same... Some of the pride we take in these cars comes from doing much of the work on them, and as such, they become an extension of us...

I'm defnitely with ya there John. Actually, with me it's the design process. I am having soooo much fun just planning my project. I'm all set to start cutting and welding this summer, but I have thoroughly enjoyed this phase of it. I actually started dreaming this car up in 1996! Along the way, I waited for technologies to evolve, learned new skills, and made new connections, all in search of my idea of the ultimate hot rod! When I finally see the car together (even mocked up) and drive it it will just be a big part of a ten-year plus journey.

Hmmm, this is kinda long - imagine if I had waited until I couldn't hold it anymore

[Zefhix]

Ultimately, to me, the pursuit of specifically defining "pro-touring" is detremental to the creative branches of this hobby that exists. I think, like everyone else, I decided to build a car a certain way and this pro-touring website was the closest to what I'm doing. That's it. Eventually the "what is pro-touring?" threads are going to drive away some potentially awesome talent and discourage others from pursuing theirs. Steve said it best...it's just a "balanced combination" of works for you.
Build your car and be happy.

[Nine Ball]

BALANCE BALANCE BALANCE!

In Stevo's words, this means that the better your car looks, the faster it has to be. I'm fine with that. :rolleyes5 haha

Nice write-up Yody. I agree with all statements. Everyone should build the car how they want to and not worry so much (or get too offended) if someone disagrees with their ideas. Its YOUR car, do what you want. But, please don't be afraid to share your progress or ideas. For every negative critic, there is also someone that appreciates your work.

[DarkBuddha]

I wasn't gonna get into these discussions, but I’ll offer some thoughts…

First, here are my base Pro-touring criteria:

#1. American production car based. This excludes foreign, limited production, or kit bodies and cars.

#2. It has been modified to be a better-than-stock all-round performer.

#3. Modifications should be about more power, better handling, better braking, better rolling stock, better chassis performance, often using hot rod, road race, and drag car inspiration, ideas, and parts. (notice I’m talking about performance, not design specifics… does a car need 13” brakes if 11” will haul it down capably?).

#4. The car should have stance, even if it’s not significantly lowered.

#5. The appearance should be respectful of the cars original lines and shouldn’t be gaudy. Race inspired or evocative of vintage performance models (SS, GS, GTO, Yenko, Mach, Boss, Shelby, GT, R/T, etc.) are ok. Avoid excess of chrome or graphics.

#6. Should be comfortable, reliable, and capable enough to handle real world driving situations, including city driving, long roadtrips, speed bumps, pot holes, dirt and gravel. I’m not saying you have to drive it (though I think you should), but it should be capable. It doesn’t have to have a/c if you live some place you don’t need it more than a couple months a year.


Also, there seems to be a lot of elitism running around. All this effort spent coming up with defining criteria seems more focused on exclusion than inclusion. I agree that there are some base criteria that seem fundamental to building a categorical Pro-touring machine, but like all things in the real world, I also know that there are always exceptions and ways of bending the rules. This means there is room for flexibility in the criteria and in the way we build our cars.

What I really hope is that folks don’t build their cars based on some formulaic criteria that seems to fit their car in some currently trendy and vogue style, but that is exactly what I see happening more and more. I think that putting specific requirements for modifications (i.e. big ass rotors, huge wheels, minimum 600hp, etc.) is just plain stupid. All of this adds up to less variety and ingenuity than big wallets coining out dime-a-dozen image machines. I think most folks will agree that '69 Camaros have already started pushing into this territory. Hell, even PHR is getting tired of '69 Camaros. Ain't this how pro-street ended up in the early '90s? Which is why pro-touring seemed refreshing... real cars, real speed parts, real driving. I'm for all that stuff!

Finally, based on far too many description, I think you might add an extra rule, which should read:

#X. It should cost a crap load to build yet another fill in the blank, or at least take a really long time to build it to offset the costs.

If this rule is true, I say pro-touring sucks.

[parsonsj]

DarkBuddha,

You mention being afraid elitism or exclusionary forces are at work. Where do you get that impression? I'm curious, and I haven't seen that in any threads (maybe I missed 'em). I don't mean to pick on you, but you aren't the only one to mention it. The definitions I see above are fine, and none of them specify difficult or exclusionary criteria.

Anybody care to comment? Do others feel the PT movement is getting exclusionary or elistist?

jp