Halogen/HID FACTS!!

[Steve Chryssos]

Apparently, the mixed HID/Halogen setup will dump a ton of light directly in front of the car. Objects in the distance are poorly lit. Hazard levels therefore increase with speed since it's harder to see what's coming down the road. And with a ton of light directly in front of you, is there a false sense of security?
I'm sure GetMore is right about different reflector/lens combinations yielding different results. But here, now? Message boards are a form of public record. Post a response for one member and others get to benefit from the information. And pro-touring.com does a better job than most when it comes to weeding out the gray area. With that said, "Just Say NO" seems like solid ground--especially since halogens work so well.

[Steve Chryssos]

Steve,

What's the word on your Headlight kits for RS's?

When will they be available, est. pricing, etc...

Around $750.
-Modified replacement headlight housings 2
-Sealed DOT Hella H9 halogen headlight modules -4
-Headlight adjusters
-Black powder coat mid plates -2
-Polished trim rings -4
-Wiring kit with relays
Installs same as stock except for wiring.
Less $100 if you supply your headlight housings for modification. We cut out the centers and weld in water jet cut steel inserts, then paint.

[Rhino]

With that said, "Just Say NO" seems like solid ground--especially since halogens work so well.

With that said, it should also be noted you'll exhibit many of these similar traits with most cheap housings/lenses regardless of the light source.

[Steve Chryssos]

Oh yeah. Vinnie's car has a set of halogen lights with plastic lenses and plastic reflectors. They fill up with moisture. And the blue tinted bulbs? Useless. The perfect upgrade for a 17 year old ricer.

Hella baby! Glass lens WITH optics and an aluminum reflector. Made by Germans. Beer swilling Germans (I think?)

[dipren443]

Oh yeah. Vinnie's car has a set of halogen lights with plastic lenses and plastic reflectors. They fill up with moisture. And the blue tinted bulbs? Useless. The perfect upgrade for a 17 year old ricer.

Hella baby! Glass lens WITH optics and an aluminum reflector. Made by Germans. Beer swilling Germans (I think?)

Beer is food to Germans... I have been to our global corporate offices in Munich several times and beer & wine are available in the cafeteria...

[BonzoHansen]

Oh yeah. Vinnie's car has a set of halogen lights with plastic lenses and plastic reflectors. They fill up with moisture.

Did he put mid 80s Taurus lights in? LOL Drill some small holes in the back of them, let them breathe. Worked on Tauruses.

[neki67]

Deleted. > Should have read Steve's link in the original post first!

For what it's worth; I use Hella E-prove H4 headlights and bulbs and am very happy with their output!

[Sparky67]

As a matter of fact HID conversions are allowed here on cars being built before 2006, after that they need to have automated height setting.

HID conversions are not legal in the USA, but there are companies that sell them. The fine is really steep for the companies that sell these kits. I read on one forum that it was $10,000 per kit sold.

http://www.sema.org/main/semaorghome.aspx?id=57682

Government Clamps Down on HID Conversion Kits

NHTSA Does Not Recognize “For Off-Road Use Only” Disclaimer

As SEMA has reported in the past, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is targeting high-intensity-discharge (HID) conversion kits for enforcement actions.


The NHTSA has concluded that it’s impossible to produce HID conversion kits (converting a halogen system to HID) that would be compliant with the federal lighting standard, Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 108. The non-compliant kits frequently include an HID bulb, ballast, igniter, relay and wiring-harness adapters. The NHTSA believes this equipment presents a safety risk to the public since the kits can be expected to produce excessive glare to oncoming motorists. In one investigation, the NHTSA found that an HID conversion headlamp exceeded the maximum allowable candlepower by over 800%.



Halogen equipment uses an electrical current to heat a metal wire-coil filament to incandescence, while the HID conversion-kit’s light source incorporates a discharge arc to produce light. HIDs require a ballast for operation. Under FMVSS No. 108’s Section S7.7 (replaceable light sources), each replaceable light source for headlamps must be designed to conform to the dimensions and electrical specifications for the headlamp source it is intended to replace. For example, if an HID kit is marketed as replacing an H1 light source, then it must match the H1’s wire-coil filament size and location, the electrical connector size and location and the ballast design for use with an H1 light source (which is impossible since there is no ballast). Consequently, companies that are manufacturing HID light sources (e.g., D1S, D1R, D2S, D2R, 9500, etc…) with incandescent light-source bases (e.g., H1, H3, H7, H8, H9, H11, H13, HB1, HB2, HB3, HB4, HB5, etc…) should be aware that this light-source design would not be one that conforms to FMVSS No. 108 and could not be imported and sold in the United States without violating federal law. (The importer is treated as the manufacturer and subject to the same fines and penalties that apply to a domestic manufacturer.)


The NHTSA has also determined that a commonly used disclaimer “for off-road use only” has no legal meaning and is not recognized by the agency, as the manufacturer, importer and retailer are not in a position to control use once a product has been sold. Any equipment offered for sale that is covered by FMVSS No. 108 (headlamps, taillamps, side markers, etc.) must comply with the standard
On a related topic, the NHTSA has also stepped up enforcement against restyled combination lamps that are missing required functions existing on the original-equipment lamps. This would include replacement front- or rear-combination lighting equipment that does not have a required reflector, amber or red light, no “DOT” marking or mismarked wattage. The issue is the same: Any equipment offered for sale that is covered by FMVSS No. 108 must comply with the standard.


SEMA is working with the NHTSA to ensure that the aftermarket lighting-industry’s perspective is heard and, simultaneously, to remind its members to obey the current rules of the road. In this fashion, SEMA members can continue to offer a full range of cutting-edge, compliant motor-vehicle lighting products.

[ProTouring442]

The reason HID retrofit kits are not legal, at least as far as I understand it, is that DOT requires HID lights to be self aiming. If you watch a new car with HID lights, when turned on the lights do a cool little dance, first down, then up.

I will be running Hella E-codes, though I would prefer the Cibbies. Cibbie are very hard to get however.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[Steve Chryssos]

HID conversions are not legal in the USA, but there are companies that sell them. ....

In Rene's case (Neki), "here" means Europe. The NHTSA policies are appropriately harsh. If you're selling HID conversions then, you're either ignorant or unscrupulous. Given those two choices, ignorant is a compliment.

I think I'll "vent" Vinnie's plasticky leaking headlights with a chop saw and hang what's left on the wall. Then I'll do an Auto Zone halogen swap using Hellas or PIAA's. Glass lenses with optics, aluminum reflectors and all. I know Hella has relay wiring kits and so does Painless, so I'll order up the right part numbers and post itemized results here. Won't be 'til after SEMA.

[neki67]

In Rene's case (Neki), "here" means Europe.

Well, it even means the Netherlands, cause as far as I know they are not allowed in Germany. Don't know about the other countries in the EU. Each country still has his/her own regulations even when they are part of the EU.

Oh, and BTW; I agree with Steve, this should be made a sticky!

[Steve Chryssos]

Heading off to yet another 2 year B-day party (yay), so I invested like 7 seconds into the following part numbers so feel free to correct.

Hella 002395301 7" conversion headlight assembly. $39.95 per side. Bulb description appears to be wrong on the Summit site Link

Painless 30816 Headlight Relay Kit. $159.95 A little pricey and 40A relays seem like overkill, but the kit is supposedly a no brainer to install. link

I'll sit down with the Hella and PIAA people at SEMA.

[1969CamaroRS]

Then I'll do an Auto Zone halogen swap using Hellas or PIAA's. Glass lenses with optics, aluminum reflectors and all. I know Hella has relay wiring kits and so does Painless, so I'll order up the right part numbers and post itemized results here.

That would be great for those of us thinking of doing the swap

[JustinB]

$240 for modern headlights that actually work, SOLD!

[Steve1968LS2]

If HID kits are illegal then how is Fesler now selling them? Is it the same deal so some HID variation?

Just curious.. Oh, and interesting topic.

[zbugger]

I got my headlight conversion a LONG time ago. It was from a company called "Iguana Motors" in Florida. I believe they are out of business now though. I have the glass lenses, relay wiring harness, and "Super White" bulbs. The bulbs are 100w/90w if I remember correctly. And yes, they are BRIGHT!!! With just the relay harness in place, the standard halogen lights were a little brighter, but more importantly they didn't dim when my rpm's dropped to idle at a light. I have to look, but I remember the cut on the lense being different from a standard lens on a stock replacement you can get at any auto parts store. I'll see if I can't get a pic or two of them. But the lenses look very similar to what the HELLA parts look like. Glass lens with a metal reflector. I think I paid around $200 for it, but I really don't remember. It was too long ago.

[Steve Chryssos]

If HID kits are illegal then how is Fesler now selling them? Is it the same deal so some HID variation?

Just curious.. Oh, and interesting topic.

Ask the source.

[Fesler built]

You are correct to a point, DOT will not let you run HID in a Halogen light. The reason is the old lights did not work correct. The new style Halogen bulbs will work with HID we use them all the time.

We sell a Halogen kit with great DOT lights and two colors for the bulbs. You can not legally sell a HID for a Halogen bulb but people do it all the time. Will you get a ticket well thats up to a cop and 98% wont have a clue at what you have.

We sell the kits seperate from the lights and if you install them in a street car that is up to you. If you want a DOT approved light we can get them but they are 3 times more money and 99% of everyone that buys lights will not spend the extra money for almost the exact same thing.

We have installed both and the difference is hard to notice so its up to you if you are interested in HID we have a great kit that will not break the bank for you and you will have HID in almost any bulb set up.

[BigVin]

So you sell an OFF ROAD kit?

[Steve Chryssos]

....The new style Halogen bulbs will work with HID we use them all the time...

So, you're running Halogen bulbs? Not Xenon bulbs?