Halogen/HID FACTS!!

[Steve Chryssos]

This is pro-touring. Function first. We like to do things the right way.



Fact: You CANNOT use HID bulbs in a Halogen lens. Sure, you can buy em. And the bulb may fit in the hole. There will even be lots of shiny wow wee light when you stand in front of the car and take pix for your friends and homeboyz.
But from the driver's seat ...and from the driver's seats of oncoming traffic, HID bulbs in halogen lenses are dangerous, useless and illegal. The resulting light pattern is scattered. You will light up everything but the road ahead. 747's will home in on you. Don't do it. Just get a good set of Halogen lights (Lights = Bulb + Lens).
Get ready to geek out. Read on: (sticky worthy)
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...nversions.html

[69LT1Nova]

"The only safe and legitimate HID retrofit is one that replaces the entire headlamp—that is lens, reflector, bulb...the whole system—with optics designed for HID usage. In the aftermarket, it is possible to get clever with the growing number of available products, such as Hella's modular projectors available in HID or halogen, and fabricate your own brackets and bezels, or to modify an original-equipment halogen headlamp housing to contain optical "guts" designed for HID usage"


Good to know. So not all HID kits are bad - IF they are optically tuned correctly.

[Steve Chryssos]

Correct. They'll probably still be illegal for on road use. But they'll work. Get it wrong and you won't be able to see 30 feet ahead of you. Oh and thanks for the correction:
Lights = bulb + reflector (housing) + lens

And lets not get too hung up on the term "projector" lens. Projector does not automatically mean HID. Hella makes projector housing/lens assemblies for halogen bulbs.

[1969CamaroRS]

Thanks for the info, been looking at what to do about the front lights.

[Flash68]

This post seems to be in response to a lot of the questions around Fesler's new HID light kit, correct?

So does this mean his kit is a good one in you guys' views?

I am trying to decide what to do with front lights too....

thx

[GetMore]

Steve, for the most part you are correct, but I'm not sure you're 100% there. I have a set of "E-code" lights on a car and HIDs installed in them, and it's got a great cutoff and does not light the trees. The E-codes are completely different from the old DOT light pattern.
I do not doubt that my setup could be illegal, and that just installing HIDs into regular lights will put the light everywhere and effectively blind not only other drivers but yourself. The only thing I'm disagreeing on is that not all halogen-based reflectors are inappropriate for HIDs.

Maybe I'll stop down one day and see what you think of my setup, so you can see it for yourself and tell me if I'm right or wrong. Then we'll both know. ;)

BTW, I was thinking of converting my old Hella DOT legal E-code style lights to HID, but I am waiting for an actual legal HID setup to come out. I think we're both on the same page for that, we want proper cutoff and beam spread, so you can see safely and not blind other drivers.

[Steve Chryssos]

It's a confusing subject. And it pops up regularly. For example:
Q: What's the difference between a lamp and a bulb?
A: "Lamp" means housing (reflector + Lens). The bulb is the thingie that shines light and plugs into the lamp.

And the HID thing? The halogen lamps are legit. The HID bulb/ballast kits might be legit. But put 'em together and you have junk. A great big crapasaurus chewing on your wallet.

The conclusion, as I see it, is to go Halogen and forget about HID. Halogen lighting provides true modern technology without compromising function or safety. We did all the homework for our upcoming RS kits--right down to swapping HID bulbs into halogen lamps. Twist set a policy to not offer anything in HID. Our conversion kits will be H9 Halogen. Delays in releasing the kits are the direct result of due diligence. We probably will not bother to offer direct replacement lamp kits because you can just drive down to Auto Zone and get them. For example, google Hella H6024.

[Steve Chryssos]

Steve, for the most part you are correct, but I'm not sure you're 100% there. I have a set of "E-code" lights on a car and HIDs installed in them, and it's got a great cutoff and does not light the trees. The E-codes are completely different from the old DOT light pattern.

I'd love to do the comparison. Easy enough to find an abandoned road and swap out bulbs. Then just use a camera on a tripod. Comparing photos is best. The breadth of this issue is astounding. Your experience fits squarely into the gray area. To me, there's just no reason to go there again since halogen lights work so well. I just prefer to keep halogen bulbs in halogen lamps.

[dipren443]

Steve,

Are your kits going to include relay harnesses? Whats the expected price point? I was going to build my own relay harness, but if a kit were reasonable enough, I would consider it.

Also, just looked at the H9 bulbs. They are single filament. What are your plans for high beams?

Nick

[Sparky67]

Also, just looked at the H9 bulbs. They are single filament. What are your plans for high beams?

Nick

Nick,

This is Steve's kit from another post in the past.
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=43201

Jeff

http://www.kodakgallery.com/67rscamaro

[MuscleRodz]

Simple reason that they are illegal is because DOT says they are unless they came in the vehicle from the factory. Very reason why we opted not to sell HID kits over a year ago. Short search on DOT lighting regs will spell it out. Also not all capsules are DOT approved either so you have to be careful there as well. The ones that aren't don't have the correct reflector pattern. Driver may just get a ticket, a company selling them could be served with severe fines. Also why we won't sell clear taillight lenses either.

[Damn True]

Simple reason that they are illegal is because DOT says they are unless they came in the vehicle from the factory.

Say no more. A $25 fix it ticket is one thing. Someone getting his business taken away is a whole 'nuther deal.

Also why we won't sell clear taillight lenses either.

Well.......also because they are wicked ree-tah-did.

[Flash68]

Well.......also because they are wicked ree-tah-did.

Haha. I agree. But I prefer we-todd-it.

[dipren443]

Nick,

This is Steve's kit from another post in the past.
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=43201

Jeff

http://www.kodakgallery.com/67rscamaro

Thanks for the link Jeff.

Although it did sound like Steve was referring to a more universal solution and mentioned sticking with Hhalogens. Also, I am assuming they would want to target a kit to replace the 7" sealed beams to broaden their market. That kit with the projectors is absolutely sick, and hidden behind RS doors works, but wouldn't work for most of us.

Also, I really have no issues with building my own halogen based kit. But if someone were to offer a nice kit with a custom relay harness, I would be all over it.

Nick

[Steve Chryssos]

We don't sell standard diameter headlights, but I'll work up some Hella part numbers for you shop around. Relay kits are available, too.

[dipren443]

We don't sell standard diameter headlights, but I'll work up some Hella part numbers for you shop around. Relay kits are available, too.

Ehh no worries. I am pretty familiar with all of this stuff. Just gotta get off my lazy butt and do it. Its going to be one of my winter projects.

[67RS]

Steve,

What's the word on your Headlight kits for RS's?

When will they be available, est. pricing, etc...

[Takid455]

anybody make and HID kit for a 6x4 head light?

[Rhino]

I'd love to do the comparison. Easy enough to find an abandoned road and swap out bulbs. Then just use a camera on a tripod. Comparing photos is best. The breadth of this issue is astounding. Your experience fits squarely into the gray area. To me, there's just no reason to go there again since halogen lights work so well. I just prefer to keep halogen bulbs in halogen lamps.

Unfortunately I have no pics to show, although I did do this exact same comparison (e-code vs DOT lenses) when I did a halogen swap into my Wrangler. I compared both road illumination and projection onto an unlit wall. The e-codes have a much more dramatic cut off on the wall, and project most of their light toward the road.
When using the same headlight aiming the lights are much less distracting when viewed from 100 yards out. This makes a huge difference in a lifted vehicle. I have not tried this with a car yet.

The reason for this difference in lens design is most European signs are self lit. Here in the US we rely mostly upon headlight illumination and light reflection for overhead signs.
From my research so far, E-code and DOT approved lenses are mutually exclusive.

[dipren443]

Unfortunately I have no pics to show, although I did do this exact same comparison (e-code vs DOT lenses) when I did a halogen swap into my Wrangler. I compared both road illumination and projection onto an unlit wall. The e-codes have a much more dramatic cut off on the wall, and project most of their light toward the road.
When using the same headlight aiming the lights are much less distracting when viewed from 100 yards out. This makes a huge difference in a lifted vehicle. I have not tried this with a car yet.

The reason for this difference in lens design is most European signs are self lit. Here in the US we rely mostly upon headlight illumination and light reflection for overhead signs.
From my research so far, E-code and DOT approved lenses are mutually exclusive.

The cutoff on E-codes is nearly linear. They do have a kickup on the passenger side of the car for illuminating signs/side of the road. The light output is so much more focused in the right place for driving.

The cutoff resembles something along the lines of this: ___/