Pro-Touring Show Cars?

[JohnUlaszek]

Within the past year there seems to have been an influx of members leaning more towards the show than driving end of the PT spectrum. Has anyone else noticed this?

[Steve1968LS2]

So?

Some people want track cars they can take to shows.. some people want show cars they can take to the track..

And just because someone puts and emphisis on how the car looks does not mean that the do not plan on driving it.

Think of the word "pro-touring".. what is touring? When I see that word I think of winding through a long sweeping alpine road.. I don't think of Buttonwillow or Watkins Glenn.. Pro-Touring is not about racing or track use, it is about driving cars and enjoying them. If someones idea of enjoying a car is a weekend cruise on the twisty roads going up the coast then so be it. Others may want to go fender to fender on a road course.

When you say "show" it is almost like you are implying that a "show" car is not capable of being driven.. It can be both. Most people want their cars to look good as well as perform to me the trend of building "beautiful" PT cars is just a natural progression of the hobby. Variety is what makes this such a fun community

[slck6t9]

Amen Steve

[JohnUlaszek]

Steve,
I am not implying anything.
I am stating that there seems to have been an increase in members on this site who are focusing more on the appearance aspect.
This is not negative or positive, just a trend that one of the moderators suggested I bring up as a discussion point.

Personally I think we are seeing a divergence between PT and G-Machines and Pro-Touring.com is a happy medium between Corner Carvers and Lateral-G.

Of course this is not a problem, just a trend I and others are observing.

[Andrew McBride]

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve,
I am not implying anything.
I am stating that there seems to have been an increase in members on this site who are focusing more on the appearance aspect.
This is not negative or positive, just a trend that one of the moderators suggested I bring up as a discussion point.

Personally I think we are seeing a divergence between PT and G-Machines and Pro-Touring.com is a happy medium between Corner Carvers and Lateral-G.

Of course this is not a problem, just a trend I and others are observing.

Are you painting your car? Gonna have polished wheels? I think your question address the degree of "show" a car has.. right?

I know your not trying to be difficult but by seperating "show cars" and "driven cars" you in effect saying that show cars are not also built to be driven.

To me Pro-Touring cars are heavier on the show aspect and g-Machines are heavier on the performance aspect..

[BADVELLE]

I believe whole-heartedly that it can go both ways. I am one that like my car to look good, it is not all show either. I like looking at a car that looks awesome and is driven everywhere, including track days. There are several examples off of the top of my head: Andrew B.'s Goat, Steve C.'s Camaro, Kyle Tuckers Camaro and how could I not list Mark Stielow and all the cars he has built. I know there are tons more, but these are all very nice, but driven....HARD!

I can understand where John is coming from, but I do believe you can have your cake and eat it to, meaning a very nice ride and a very fast ride. Just my .02 cents.

[harshman]

I think this board could be used to greater our knowledge of suspension, performance, paint (and all the rest of the topic lists) rather than to create pointless opinions. And so far it has done just that perfectly. The moderators and the owner of this site are great people that have a passion for the sport. I like your car you like my car… leave it at that.

[JohnUlaszek]

I am not "coming from" or "implying" anything. I am making an observation about a trend.

It is important to recognize the philosphies and types of builds within PT are becoming more distinct and differences in opinion will become more pronounced.
Ultimately the way we handle this will dictate how we deal with each other on this site

[Andrew McBride]

delete

[USAZR1]

It is important to recognize the philosphies and types of builds within PT are becoming more distinct and differences in opinion will become more pronounced.
Ultimately the way we handle this will dictate how we deal with each other on this site

That's the problem with protouring,,no one can agree completely on what makes a successful protourer.
Sorta makes it fun,don't it?

[JohnUlaszek]

Andrew,
I will repeat, It was suggested I bring this up as a point of discussion by one of the moderators.

[parsonsj]

Hmmm.

Why even stir up problems?

One person's problem might be another's genuine question. I don't think this site should be about only saying nice things. Genuine technical questions and philosophical differences are what makes learning fun.

We aren't going to go down a path of all of us agreeing to only discuss what all of us agree on. That's gonna choke off discussion pretty quickly.

So let's talk about the differences.

Does Pro-Touring imply a "Show" element? How much "Show" does it take before a car becomes a show car and not a PT car?

Or am I asking the wrong question entirely? If so, then what is the right question?

Thoughts?

jp

[harshman]

I do not believe that a definition of a show car or a “go” car is needed. If your car can perform well and look perty then great. Pro-touring is all about a well rounded 40 year old machine that can keep up with the new stuff all the while pulling at the heart strings of many people. Should it sparkle? Most defiantly. How much sparkle? Who cares, as long you are happy with it, have at it. My definition of sparkle (read as money) and yours are very different. Should there be a discussion of what category your sparkle should be put in compared to mine? Hell no. I’d say the differences are what make this sport fun. Come on, how many Boydster’s can you look at until they all get blurry?

Now pardon me while I go apply my fourth coat of wax.

[Steve1968LS2]

Hmmm.

One person's problem might be another's genuine question. I don't think this site should be about only saying nice things. Genuine technical questions and philosophical differences are what makes learning fun.

Thoughts?

jp

I agree, we are not here to just pat each other on the back.. but questions and opinions can be given in tactful and respectful ways. We all have similar yet very different goals for our individual cars and that should be kept in mind.

The last thing we need to do is start dividing ourselves into different "camps".. that is not good for the hobby as a whole.

I am sure that the Mule has spent way more time at car show type events than on the racetrack.. yet it is looked at, by many, as the pinnicle of pro-touring. Is it a show car? a street car? a race car? the line between these is not black and white.

We are all just shades of grey..

[parsonsj]

Should there be a discussion of what category your sparkle should be put in compared to mine? Hell no.

I gotta disagree. That's the point of what I'm saying. Nobody should get to squelch what we discuss and don't discuss. If you don't want to add your opinion, then don't. No problem. But let's not call for stopping the discussion, and let's keep it civil and not personal. Respectful disagreement is a good way to learn new things.

jp

[harshman]

I gotta disagree. That's the point of what I'm saying. Nobody should get to squelch what we discuss and don't discuss. If you don't want to add your opinion, then don't. No problem. But let's not call for stopping the discussion, and let's keep it civil and not personal. Respectful disagreement is a good way to learn new things.

jp

Learn what?

[F70t/a]

I like show cars. One reason being that it shows people what kinda stuff we do. If the cars were all beat up from track use and what not, people would not be as interested. The first show car I seen was a pro-street and it got me into drag racing for a while. I don't see nothing wrong with having a killer paint job and nice parts. Everyone will use there cars for different reason's and i respect that. I dig everyone's car on this site!

[JamesJ]

Well maybe there are a lot of new cars being built so most people who have any since will show there car for the first part since it hopefully is in the best condition it will be in, and then will do more road trips then more track time. Just the normal progression.

[parsonsj]

The last thing we need to do is start dividing ourselves into different "camps"

Let's not worry about assigning camps to each other. Let's talk about Show and PT, and how they mix.

I haven't followed the Mule that closely other than to read most of the articles in PHR. I've never seen it in person. My take on the car is that its beauty lies in its attention to detail and how the function drove the form. I could be wrong (in fact I often am), but I don't recall any elements that are "Show" only.

jp