wing design/theory

[FirstGenZq8]

hello everyone

great forum. followed a couple of s-series folks over here that are of like mind.

application:
1992 s10 regular cab short bed
5.7L LT1/T56
pro touring performance teetering on street fighter look

i’m currently building a bed cover w/ aluminum sheet similar to this: http://www.tyguy.net/gallery2/d/3929-2/Bild+026.jpg

while i’m fartin’ around w/ that i figured i’d try my hand at building a wing for track days.

rear spoiler - used on a car is to 'spoil' unfavorable air movement across a body of a vehicle in motion. i do NOT want to build a spoiler.

rear wing - used to generate downforce as air passes around it, helping the drive wheels to maintain traction at high speeds. DING i want this!

my questions:

in order for me to reap any benefits of a rear spoiler, would I need to have a front wing installed as well for balanced grip?

what are these brackets called and where can I get them?

http://www.lateral-g.org/events/sema2007/DSC01789.JPG

do the principles represented below apply the same to a truck as they do a car?

http://images.circletrack.com/techarticles/139_0304_aero_11_z.jpg

http://images.circletrack.com/techarticles/139_0304_aero_12_z.jpg

some pretty general questions, i know, but i’m pretty much at the conceptual phase right now and just need some ideas. thank you all for your help!

[FirstGenZq8]

apparently they're called "adjustable spoiler supports". http://www.racecity.biz/prod1.html

anybody know where else to buy these? i want to see all of the different styles out there.

[Turbo67camaro]

I wonder if an upside down aircraft wing shape would create a better ratio between drag and downward force ? i.e. less drag with more downward force.

The forces apply the same between a car and a truck. One concern would be the location/placement of the wing. The truck cab might create some areas behind it with less air flow than a more sleek car. Placing a wing in an area with minimal air flow creates less downward force.

[Twentyover]

apparently they're called "adjustable spoiler supports". http://www.racecity.biz/prod1.html

anybody know where else to buy these? i want to see all of the different styles out there.

Is it merely coincidence that the Viagra car was shown with devices to make your spoiler stand up?

[SaturnVUEguy]

Is it merely coincidence that the Viagra car was shown with devices to make your spoiler stand up?

[Lowend]

So you wanna see something REALLY cool?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIn-...eature=related
http://aeromotions.com/

Vic is a long-time racing buddy and believe me, he is always on the cutting edge.

[Twentyover]

Aren't movable (as opposed to adjustable) aero devices banned by most sanctioning bodies after Mercedes used them in the '50's?

[Lowend]

Believe me in the SCCA - if people could protest Vic they would... I can't speak for other series

[69stang]

I don't see a problem putting a wing at the back of the bed, it should be far enough behind the turbulent air around the rear of the cab and that cover will help smooth out the airflow.

Up front you'll want to minimize airflow going under the nose with an airdam or front spoiler. That will help keep the nose down and stabilize it.

[buickfunnycar.com]

So you wanna see something REALLY cool?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIn-...eature=related
http://aeromotions.com/

Vic is a long-time racing buddy and believe me, he is always on the cutting edge.

I believe I've seen that car run Marina Brett...who's he think he is,Jim Hall?

[maldo]

[Lowend]

Vic is a Bay Area guy... he is at Marina pretty much constantly, and that car is a complete Monster
http://www.siastuning.com/
It was slower - but I liked his old 240Z better

You can't really see the flares in this pic -

[jaybee]

I'm skeptical about the Aeromotions wing. Not saying it can't work, but some cool autocross video on an already fast car isn't necessarily proof. My issues are; 1) Without a center plate shouldn't downforce on the high side of the wing be seriously limited by air spilling from one wing segment to the other? 2) Backing that up, the hinges, actuator links, and even the bit holding the two wing halves together just don't look beefy enough to carry a lot of downforce. 3) Is autocross really the place to test and demonstrate the benefits of sohisticated, active aerodynamics?

[David Pozzi]

1. a good idea.
2. I don't think there is much downforce at autocross speeds.
3. The car owner has a fuel injection tuning/sales business, he's the type of guy who would enjoy toying around with this sort of thing. Moveable wings are illegal most places except some circle tracks, and I guess it's legal for Autocross. Just wait til SCCA eliminates THIS loophole!
David

[Norm Peterson]

I'm pretty sure that any center dividers would have been interpreted as a case of too many endplates. Two @ 200 sq in each is the limit.


Norm

[HectorM52]

Joe did you ever figure anything out?

[FirstGenZq8]

mmm, not really adam. i'm still in the "theory" stage methinks. i did find the cheapest places for the adjustable spoiler supports:

http://store.cdoc.com/detail.asp?id=...me=Shift+Knobs

http://www.irvansmith.com/scart/long...c-163_179.html

i'm probably just going to use some stainless steel piano hinges and a very simple 18 gauge or so rectangle wing for the rear. unless a new reader of this thread has any better ideas???

[Tom Welch]

Has anyone discussing this issue considered the use of vortex generators, (I found these in the Aircraft Spruce Catalog) I dont see why they wouldnt work. They might not look too cool though. Any thoughts on this?

[trackrat79]

I thought u did not want a nascar type blade (spoiler) on the back of the truck.

I was under the impresion that u wanted a true wing as your downforce generator.

If a more wing style device is what u are after then, i would start with two endplates or uprights and a flat blade wing on a leading edge or central pivot with some sort of selectable rear mounting point as your adjustment. As i say this is just an idea for a starting point. i know a flat blade wing is not a hole lot better than a blade ypte spoilerother than the fact that it is up in the air flow more instead of mounted to the rear deck of the truck.

I too have toyed with the idea of a rear wing for my truck but since i have decided to build a more nascar theamed truck I will stay with a blade type spoiler for my current project. I am also still debating on wether to go with the more traditional nascar fron airdam type front end or the new COT type fron splitter. BUt i have ideas and designs for both.

http://http://images.google.com/imgr...%3Den%26sa%3DN

this is a crude version of what i am talking about but it should get my idea across as a starting point.

this is a ruff rendering done by my self of what i am working towards

[FirstGenZq8]

i've found some images online that made me want to bring this thread back TTT.

the below image suggests that a nascar styled wing wouldn't give much downforce, correct?







the red areas in the below pic illustrate high turbulence areas, correct? so a "high rise" wing would supply more downforce than a nascar wing. right or wrong?