Driving Impressions: 21st Century Sub Frame

[Payton King]

Hi All!

Well, I got to drive the test mule for 21st Century's C5 sub frame. It is a 68 Convertible Camaro with their design subframe connectors and C5 subframe. Basically they put the car back together and took it to the alignment shop and then I drove the car. There has been no tweaking on the car what-so-ever.

IT WAS AMAZING! The part of the expierence that I was not prepared for was the ride quality. I would have guessed it to be stiff, but not so. I would say that it rides better than a C5 vette. The steering is lightning fast. I tried to push the car but my common sense got the better of me. I am riding around in the country going down 2 lane roads where the posted speed is 35 mph and I am doing 75 mph trying to get an idea of the car at the limit and I could not even get the tires to howl. Same two lane road and I take my hand off the wheel about 65 mph and the car tracks straight and true. This is also the case over any road irregularities as well...very stable package. Easy to drive fast.



Ed called me later in the day and had gone to a local school parking lot, hooked up a "G-Tech" and proceded to rip off a .92 on about a 70 ft circle. Again this with no tuning or tweaking of any kind running normal Goodyear rubber. 245/45/17 and 275/40/17.

Needless to say, I am very excited. I took a leap of faith after speaking with Ed and Jim and I am happy that I did. When you take someone that is use to designing race cars that run 200 mph and have them design a subframe for a 1st gen car, you can bet that it has the goods to exceed any expectations that you have. I am confident with testing, tuning, some sticky tires and this subframe in on a coupe that pulling close to 1 g will be possible. I also know that there is more to a good handling car than a skid pad figure and this car has the entire package. I get to drive a lot of cool cars as I am an insurance agent and my policyholders know that I am into cars so if they get something new I get to drive it. So this rave review comes from someone that has recently driven a 360 Modena, Bentley GT, AWD twin turbo 911 and a Mallet Z06. If you have any questions, lt them fly.

[68protouring454]

sounds awesome, any pics of ride?? also more specs, what kind of rack?? c5? coil overs?? etc
glad your having fun
jake

[trapin]

Price?

[Salt Racer]

Hi All!

Hi Payton!

...IT WAS AMAZING! The part of the expierence that I was not prepared for was the ride quality. I would have guessed it to be stiff, but not so. I would say that it rides better than a C5 vette...

That's probably due to good bump valving and good side view geometry.

...I am riding around in the country going down 2 lane roads where the posted speed is 35 mph and I am doing 75 mph...

Let's not do this on street...

...the car tracks straight and true. This is also the case over any road irregularities as well...very stable...

The combination of small scrub radius and miminum bumpsteer is a beautiful thing.

...I am confident with testing, tuning, some sticky tires and this subframe in on a coupe that pulling close to 1 g will be possible....

I think so too.

...I also know that there is more to a good handling car than a skid pad figure and this car has the entire package....

Yessir. The assembly of C5 UCA/LCA and knuckle has very good nature. With proper tuning, it'll handle REALLY good.


Big Congrats to Ed and boys at 21st!! Can't wait to see the official testing results!

[Payton King]

I will have to dig my stuff out to give and exact price. I think around about $3700 for a custom sway bar, rack and steering arms and transmission cross member along with the subframe. The cost of the UCA/LCA, knuckel and bearing pack depends on whether you go new or used. I went new but got mine a dealer cost. They also make a custom header for any motor you would run...big block, small block or LS1.

They use an ARG rack, but then it takes them about 4 hours worth of modifications. The sway bar is a circle track piece they modify as well.
The coil overs are QA-1's.

I will try to get you pics in the next few days of the car.

Yea, you are probably right about screaming down the 2 lane rd. The good thing is no houses around, the bad thing is I was watching for a deer to jump out the whole time.

[Edward Bednar]

Thanks Payton for the glowing report. Chuck Grant and David Conrade also drove the car on Saturday. They may weigh in as well sometime.We are excited about its performance as well and have alot of adjustability built in to go to tweaking it and really tuning it. Katz thanks for the congrats.We were in a rather rural area when Payton pushed it a little, we would never endanger others or ourselves on the street.Payton's comment was "you'll have to take it to the track to really test its limits" and I agree. The prices are on the web site at www.21stcenturystreetmachines.com. I'll try to stay in touch with the forum to answer questions as well. Anyone wanting to drive the car is more than welcome. I have some people coming in from as far as Ca. for a test in the near future. You can also reach me at [email protected]. By the way Payton's car is going to be a drop vesion with mini-me tubbing and one bad ass ride sporting C6 wheels and tires and a very high hp LS motor. We're excited to get his and Conrades Big block on the street ASAP.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Thanks for the feedback, Payton. It sounds like Ed and the 21st century boys have a killer subframe on their hands. I look forward to hearing from the others.

[Payton King]

I believe that they are going to hook a better data aquistion system up and run a full battery of tests...that should be a better than a g-tech. I am guessing in March sometime.

If anyone wants to see photos head over to lateral-g.net. Scott has a link in the thread.

Payton