Sway bar end alignment

[MilesSpeed]

I have been told in the past that the ends of the sway bar should be parallel with the ground/lower control arms. I believe that is true, but what actually happens if its wrong?

[GetMore]

I think the bushings have to deflect more, and if the angles get bad enough you break the links.

[MrQuick]

Also, if the links are too far in either direction, the bar may limit too soon or too late. But yes either links break or bushings wear out faster.

[David Pozzi]

We've had a lot of discussion about this on Team Camaro.
When a first gen Camaro is lowered, the anti roll bar arms wind up pointing upwards, the eye of the bar can be at an angle, when the car hit's a bump, the angle get's worse and if stiff bushings are used on the end links, the bar can bind, causing some weird oscillations of the front end. The ends of the bar push up on the car and can even affect ride height. Shorter end links help to level the bar and prevent problems but you CAN go too far.

While it's desirable to have them level, the other side of the coin is, the end links need to remain as long as possible or they can bind as they swing side to side. The A arm moves up and down through it's own arc, left to right viewing from the front of the car . A good compromise is somewhere around 2.5" to 2", that is about as short as you can go and not have end link bind from side to side motion.

Another solution is to bend the very ends of the bar to make THEM level, then the end links can be stock length with minimum binding.
David

[neki67]

A good compromise is somewhere around 2.5" to 2".

David, is that total length, from the end link to the A-arm or in between the bushings?

[Rick Dorion]

I've been chasing a 46-48 mph oscillation as David descibed. My bar ends are slightly angled up because of my lowered suspension but I don't feel I can shorten the end links any more. I backed off the end link nut (poly bushings) until I could barely twist the bushing washer and my oscillations went away.

[Magntik]

After lowering my '67 Firebird, the ends of the stock bar pointed at the moon. So I replaced endlinks and cut down the spacer till they were almost level. Last winter I upgraded the front bar to the Hotchkis bar and installed the endlinks that came with it. And again the ends pointed a little further up. So I called Hotchkis told the dude my situation and that I had their lowering springs already installed.
He told me that everything is were it supposed to be when using thier sway bar and springs together. So I left them pointing up just a bit.
By the way the other ones I cut down were pretty short.

[MilesSpeed]

thats guys for all the great info! I'm doing a write up on the air ride end links everyone seems to like so much

I think I do too

[David Pozzi]

David, is that total length, from the end link to the A-arm or in between the bushings?

No, just the sleeve length.
David

[Norm Peterson]

I've been chasing a 46-48 mph oscillation as David descibed. My bar ends are slightly angled up because of my lowered suspension but I don't feel I can shorten the end links any more. I backed off the end link nut (poly bushings) until I could barely twist the bushing washer and my oscillations went away.

Maybe try recontouring the poly pieces and the washers to be better approximations of a rod end when assembled. The more angular freedom you can get from sliding movement and the less that you rely on compliance, I think the less likely it will be that these side effects [of poly's relatively low compliance] will show up as functional problems.

A little taper in the hole to accommodate endlink bolt angular movements, and more or less spherical shaping of the ends of the poly not in contact with the bar or control arm (and also the washers) isn't that hard to do. I think you'd want the spherical surface diameter to be the distance between the two washers as assembled/installed, which will not necessarily be equal to the bushing OD. You trade a little effective sta-bar stiffness for better endlink behavior.


Norm

[Rick Dorion]

Thanks, Norm!

[shmoov69]

So, this is not an ideal setup? LOL. That is what I got now. What all is the problems? And what is oscillation?


* Bolt head
_ washer
v bushing
----- bar
^ bushing
= 2 washers
v bushing
----- A arm
^ bushing
-- washer
* nut


Thanks



Hmmm.... it did not post it the way I laid it out.......you get the picture I hope!

[Norm Peterson]

I think you forgot the spacer that goes in the middle of your " = 2 washers "


No, it's not perfect because the stiffness of the bushing material tries to bend the endlink and add a little extra stiffness that most sta-bar stiffness formulas do not even consider. Ideally, endlink pivots should be spherical pivots, which a split bushing arrangement is anywhere from a fair to a very poor approximation of. Most of the time, the OE's get away with a split bushing design because the rubber pucks are soft enough that they don't add much load or stress to the endlinks. They just "squish" instead. At least that's what happens when they use rubber. Some Ford Explorer/Expedition front bar endlinks have used a much harder substance, more like poly - perhaps even stiffer than most aftermarket endlink poly - and they have broken enough endlink bolts with that design that Moog has a specific "problem-solver" for it. I've actually seen one such case.

Clamping down on a poly-bushed endlink just makes the ends more rigid against rotation and effectively stiffens the poly still further. So the endlink bending (and stress) goes up.

Oscillation is a slow vibration of sorts, in this case kind of like the front end or one front corner can't quite make up its mind to stay in one position but rises and falls slightly instead. I'd guess that an unfortunate combination of bushing stiffness and control arm/endlink and endlink/sta-bar angles are to blame (and the bar is adding some variable amount of ride rate).


Norm

[MrQuick]

So, this is not an ideal setup? LOL. That is what I got now. What all is the problems? And what is oscillation?


* Bolt head
_ washer
v bushing
----- bar
^ bushing
= 2 washers
v bushing
----- A arm
^ bushing
-- washer
* nut


Thanks



Hmmm.... it did not post it the way I laid it out.......you get the picture I hope!

So...am I stealing 3rd or stay at 2nd. LOL

[shmoov69]

Thanks Norm. I don't think that I have any oscillation that I can tell. I am sure that my front end is not really that great, but I have never driven a car that actually handles well! LOL! Heck, I would take a dump truck thru the corners as fast as it could! Wouldn't do worth a crap, but I'd give it all she had!
Soooo, lets see here, what's wrong with my front.......lower control arms not at the right angle since it sits too low for the stock stuff. Upper control arms factory mounting angles. And the sway bar endlinks being too short with no spacer......

Did I say dump truck!??! LOL!


And Vince, I don't get it........Sorry, but it's been a long day for me! LOL

[JEFFTATE]

My car does that little oscillation thing too.
I steer to go through a curve and the car slightly changes direction.
Like a shimmy. Even though the steering wheel doesn't move much.
Almost like bumpsteer , but there's no bumps.

I too have cut down the spacer between the endlink bushings to about two inches in order to get the swaybar ends level.
But I have Poly bushings and I think they are contributing to a bit of bind.