Coming Soon: 4L65RR Manumatic System

[GetMore]

Any updates? I'm kind of feeling like a kid during Christmas.

[Steve Chryssos]

Yup. RR Calibration is complete. We're editing some video right now. I'l post it up within two hours.

[1969CamaroRS]

Nice can't wait for the update.

[Roadrage David]

what about this 765l4 http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/tenseconds.html http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/cata...php?ITEMID=677

[Steve Chryssos]

Here you go. Unlike any automatic in the world of hot rodding! I'm thrilled to have the first such system. Listen carefully for the engine note as I accelerate and decelerate. You can hear the engine braking and at times, you can even hear the damper springs of the "clutch" that is hiding in my MuscleDrive torque converter. Lock up is presently set to engage in 2nd, 3rd, 4th. It can also be engaged 3rd, 4th only; or 4th only. But that's no fun. Watch the speedo, too. 12 o' clock is 80mph. So the car is regularly doing about 70mph on a 30mph back road. Yay!

Direct drive baby. Crank those speakers!

4L65RR Manumatic System Video

Technology and exclusivity has it's price. The RR system is priced at $6455 for early style trans cases (pre-97) and $6495 for late style (97-up) cases. As stated, the system includes:
-Bowler 4L65E-550 trans with engine braking option
-Twist Machine MuscleDrive Torque Converter
-HGM Compushift Transmission Controller
-HGM Display
-Twist/Bowler Advanced TCU Calibration
-Twist Machine Shrifter® Paddle Shifter
Please feel free to ask any questions or post any comments--positive or otherwise. And thanks for looking
/Steevo

[rjsjea]

Does Bowler have a Bellhousing to put one of these behind a 6.1Hemi??

I know Keisler has a bell, or I can have an adapter made....just curious cuz Bowler has done the 4l60 behind a small block mopar

[GetMore]

Some questions:

How soon could I pick up one of these packages?
Is there a bank within 10 minutes of your shop?
Would you mind if I parked my car in your shop for a few hours or maybe a couple days?
Are you on good terms with the police in your area?


Actually, I'll save my serious questions for when I visit to check out the whole Shrifter thing in person.

Come to think of it, what would the preferred transmission cooling system be for this setup?

[vanzuuk1]

Sigh. I still wish I had gone with the shrifter over the five speed,this confirms it.

[Steve Chryssos]

Does Bowler have a Bellhousing to put one of these behind a 6.1Hemi??

I know Keisler has a bell, or I can have an adapter made....just curious cuz Bowler has done the 4l60 behind a small block mopar

Keisler says they won't sell their bell separately, but I think I can get one. And Pro Torque can definitely handle the converter. Bell adapter plates are easy, but the conversion bell should provide a much cleaner install, so let's pursue the Keisler route first. PM me for details.

Some questions:

How soon could I pick up one of these packages?
Is there a bank within 10 minutes of your shop?
Would you mind if I parked my car in your shop for a few hours or maybe a couple days?
Are you on good terms with the police in your area?


Actually, I'll save my serious questions for when I visit to check out the whole Shrifter thing in person.

Come to think of it, what would the preferred transmission cooling system be for this setup?

Call me to set up a test drive appointment. 24 hours notice will suffice. I can have an RR system delivered in 4 weeks from date of order. We can help with the install. The police love us. They're at our shop all the time. And their jurisdiction ends 100 feet away from our shop. As for cooling, I run a basic 11"x4" plate cooler. Street temps are around 180 degrees F. Temps on the Road Atlanta course never exceeded 220 degrees F with the Redline Oil D4 synthetic rated to over 400 degrees F.

Patterson, NY is 129 miles away from our shop in Quogue, NY if you go around. 2.5 hours. Or much less if you hop the Bridgeport, CT to Port Jefferson, NY ferry

[Steve Chryssos]

Sigh. I still wish I had gone with the shrifter over the five speed,this confirms it.

Dirk,
Feel free to come borrow my car this weekend.

[Steve Chryssos]

Anyone notice the different driving style from the video?

Automatic: Brake, Turn, Apex, Throttle
Manual: Brake, Downshift, Turn, Apex, Throttle
RR: Brake, Turn, Apex/Downshift, Throttle

If not, try watching the video again.

[Damn True]

Keisler says they won't sell their bell separately, but I think I can get one. And Pro Torque can definitely handle the converter. Bell adapter plates are easy, but the conversion bell should provide a much cleaner install, so let's pursue the Keisler route first. PM me for details.

Failing that give Advance Adapters a call. They really have some astounding capabilities.

[GetMore]

Just to verify/clarify, you just run the plate cooler, you don't run through the radiator as well, right?
Are the dimensions really 11x4, or 11x24? (I know almost nothing about cooling requirements except what I've seen on other vehicles or read in advertisements.)

Thanks!

[Steve Chryssos]

11"x4.5"x1.5" B&M Supercooler part number 70625 or similar.

[Steve Chryssos]

The transmission pan is also slightly deeper than stock for extra capacity. Cooling is not an issue. We do not use or recommend an in radiator cooler.

[MarkB]

We have tried to work with Kiesler on the bellhousings, without much luck. I have not seen enough demand to make our own, so we just use and adapter plate that works out well. We have done several engine combinations from flatheads to Hemis with adapter plates with the 4L65E & 4L80E transmissions. Just about any combination can be done.
As far as the cooler, as Steve said, we do not recommend running through the radiator. Just run as large of a plate design cooler that you can get.

Mark
Bowler Performance Transmissions
www.bowlertransmissions.com

[Bruning Auto Design]

We have tried to work with Kiesler on the bellhousings, without much luck. I have not seen enough demand to make our own, so we just use and adapter plate that works out well. We have done several engine combinations from flatheads to Hemis with adapter plates with the 4L65E & 4L80E transmissions. Just about any combination can be done.
As far as the cooler, as Steve said, we do not recommend running through the radiator. Just run as large of a plate design cooler that you can get.

Mark
Bowler Performance Transmissions
www.bowlertransmissions.com

I wonder if Quicktime could help you out with this???

[Turbo67camaro]

Sweet system.

If someone wanted to get to such a system in 2 phases (for short term cost reasons), what would be the recommended way of getting there ?

For example, what would be a good 2 step path to get into a good 4L6??? transmission today, controlling it with a reasonably inexpensive system now, and then down the road upgrade to the more expensive computer and paddle shifter later, without major changes to the transmission ?

I was leaning 5 speed manual, but my wife would be happier with an automatic.

[Steve Chryssos]

Controller: I have one used PCS controller available for $650. That includes a brand new harness as well as a TCU that is checked by the manufacturer and upgraded to the latest software. It came out of our blue development car when we switched over to Compushift. Other than that, all of the transmission controllers sell for around $1000.
Paddle Shifter: The paddle shifter can be added later at any time.
Converter: Converters are about $700 to $800 depending on your application. I would not cut corners here.
Transmission: This is where the greatest expense lies--especially with a "handle" like Turbo67Camaro. How much torque are you making? What rear tires are you using (i.e. traction). What is your intended usage? (Again, traction plays an important role in transmission selection.)
Wife: I can't help there. Once you drive and enjoy a proper manumatic, your wife will not get the chance to borrow the car at all.

[Turbo67camaro]

Torque: if my project budget stays under control, I'm aiming for about 550hp at the crank (single turbo, modest boost) off a .040 over 327. If my budget gets out of control, then much less HP in version 1 of this build.

Use: mostly a weekend driver. Occasional drag strip. Occasional autocross.

Rear tires: will probably be 285mm. Leaning Nitto 555's but choice not made yet.

I may buy that controller from you if noone beats me to it. I have to figure out what trans to guy with, and what all the associated costs are going to be. If total costs get out of control, I may downgrade to a non-electric solution.

At this point, I'm looking at how much I can get a good 4L80E or 4L65E for. If they're too expensive, then I'll look at a 4L60E, 2004R, and then a 700R4 in that order.

My builder recommends a local shop that supposedly can build a 600 ft lb 700R4 for $1,000. Seems optimistic to me. Now, if they can supply a tuff remanufactured 4L80E or 4L65E for under $2K, I might go for that.

I'm wrestling with the differences in gear ratio at this point. The 1st gear of the 4L65E seems too wide, and the 1st gear of the 4L80E seems too close. My rear is a 3.42 12 bolt. I'm leaning towards the gear ratios of the 4L80E being better for my application with the added torque of a boosted application. My motor is cammed for low rpm torque, with boost torque taking over beyond low rpm. Overall, I like the gear ratios of the 2004R the best. Considering they've been used a lot in turbo Buicks, the 2004R might not be a bad choice.

Technically, I want a 6L80 transmission, but that is guaranteed to break the bank .

P.S. I've driven a manumatic car - an Audi 6 speed S tronic - and life was good. I almost bought it, but then I decided to finish this project car instead.