Coming Soon: 4L65RR Manumatic System

[Steve Chryssos]

Installing this week. The 4L65-RR consists of the following:
-Bowler Transmissions 4l65E rated to support 550 Ft-Lbs of torque
-Pro Torque MuscleDrive 9.5" torque converter
-Compushift Transmission Controller with LCD Display
-Twist Machine Paddle Shifter

Great strides have been made in bringing manumatic technology to the pro-touring community. We can input shifts manually from the steering wheel, calibrate transmission function, and control engine/transmission coupling electronically. It all works extremely well, but we want more:
1) Just how fast can the 4L series of transmission be made to shift?
2) Can shift predictability be improved?
3) Can enhanced engine braking be employed to benefit vehicle dynamics in road racing and auto-X environments?
4) Can all of this be achieved without sacrificing reliability?

While we (Twist Machine) were working from the outside in, Bowler Transmissions has been working from the inside out--by custom blueprinting and calibrating valve bodies, pumps and working with internal clearances. Just as with custom race engines, blueprinting and calibration are as important as parts selection. And just as with engines, mass produced units might be very good, but nothing compares to a precisely hand built and tested product. For those who insist on the best possible multi-purpose transmission for a pro-touring application, the sum total is worth more than the parts.



We're excited about testing the system out at Year One. Upon our return, we'll start offering the above listed items as complete, fully integrated packages called the 4L65-SR (450FtLbs) and 4L65-RR (550FtLbs). 4L80E packages will also be available up to 800FtLbs.

[neki67]

Great going Steve.

Will parts be available seperate as well? Would like some enhanced engine braking from the 4L80E.

[Steve1968LS2]

Nice.. press release?

[Steve Chryssos]

Great going Steve.

Will parts be available seperate as well? Would like some enhanced engine braking from the 4L80E.

Some of the parts like valve bodies are available separately. I'm curious to see if the extra engine braking is overbearing. It may slow the car down too much. I'll report back in two weeks.

[Steve Chryssos]

Nice.. press release?

Yup and better, yet: I'm shooting an entire install for you.
/Steve

[hmartin]

Looks AWESOME! Keep us updated.

[neki67]

I'm curious to see if the extra engine braking is overbearing. It may slow the car down too much. I'll report back in two weeks.

OK, sounds great, Steve.

[meenaggie]

Steve, ballpark price for the 4L65-SR and 4L65-RR kits? Looking forward to seeing more info after the Year One event.

[Steve Chryssos]

Steve, ballpark price for the 4L65-SR and 4L65-RR kits? Looking forward to seeing more info after the Year One event.

We''ll have pricing soon. In the meantime, here are the RR transmission specs:

HARD PARTS
-Performance Wide 2-4 Band/New OEM Drum: Used in conjunction, these parts yield maximum surface contact.
-Hardened and Reinforced Input Shaft: Steel sleeve pressed over input shaft for reinforcement.
-Cryogenic Treated Drum
-Machine Coast Clutch Piston for Clearance and Add O-Ring Seal
-Heavy Duty 5 Pinion Front & Rear Planet: with new Sun Gear and new Ring Gear. No junkyard parts.
-SPX "The Beast" Hardened Sun Shell: blueprinted in conjunction with new reverse input drum for matched set. Very important.
-Sonnax Billet 2nd Gear Servo with D-cut O-ring for leak free seal
-Super Hold billet 4th Gear Servo with 30% more apply force. D-cut O-ring for leak free seal.
-Raybestos ZPak 14 element 3-4 Clutch Upgrade for ultimate heat dissipation.
-Borg Warner Low/Rev Sprag 29 element for maximum load capacity
-Torrington Bearing Kit
-Master Kit (gaskets, seals bushings, filter etc.)
-New Inspection Cover
BLUEPRINTED AND CALIBRATED PUMP
-Hand Blueprinted Pump
-Unbreakable High Rev Hardened Pump Rings
-New HP Boost Valve
-New Pump Vanes
BLUEPRINTED AND CALIBRATED VALVEBODY
-Hand Blueprinted Valve Body
-Shift Kit: Custom calibrated to your application.
-New Shift Solenoid
-New EPC Solenoid
-New pwm Solenoid
-New Manifold Pressure Switch
-New Internal Wiring Harness w/New TCC Solenoid
-New Extra Capacity Pan
-New! New! New! Bowler supplies an un-equalled number of new parts such as wiring harnesses, connectors, sensors, etc.

[meenaggie]

Got a price from Bowler on the 4L60E kit rated for 450 ft-lbs of ~$4400 and the 4L65E rated for 550 ft-lbs of ~$5900 based on kits from their website. This kit had the Transmission, Torque Converter, Transmission Mount, Transmission Cooler, Dust Cover, Universal Fill Tube, HGM Electronic Stand-alone Controller BUT obviously not the manumatic setup from Twist Machine. I hope Steve is able to work some majic to get the price down.

[Steve Chryssos]

Price is always a sticky subject with regards to automatics. The majority of that cost lies in the transmission itself. It's possible to by a "rebuilt" 4L60E somewhere for $1500. But that is the price for what is essentially a junkyard trans with fresh OE grade frictions and a shift kit. Torque capacity? Whatever a stock LT1 4th gen can put out. If you are transplanting a bone stock LT1 or a very mild gen one 350, a stock rebuild may work for you. And Bowler sells a 350 Ft-Lb version for $2250. Dollar for dollar, I assure you that it is a better value than that $1500 clunker.

Retail for the double throw-down Bowler 4L65E-550 described above is $3700. But you need to look at that expense in the same light as a custom built race engine. What crank am I getting? Pistons? Rods? What brand components are used? Are the pistons JE or TRW? How about machining? Is the engine block align honed? Are torque plates used? How much hand finishing labor is applied such as head porting and gasket matching?

With regards to engines, the list of questions is usually quite long. This is to ensure that power and reliability are carefully factored into the expense. Comparing engine specs and features is a time honored tradition in hot rodding. The same care and consideration must be applied to high end transmissions. But I have found that most transmission builders fail to properly convey that message. The result is that buyers tend to shop based on price alone. It's not the buyer's fault. They don't have enough information. That's why I took great care to lay out the 4L65E-550's specifications in my earlier post.

If that makes sense, then all that's left is to have an honest discussion about torque ratings. They are dependent on tire selection and usage. 550 Ft-Lbs on slicks is very different than 550 Ft-lbs on low profile tires. Likewise, a car that gets raced frequently is very different than a pure street car. Vin's car has a 700HP big block and a relatively stock 4L80E. We shopped by price only--same as everyone else. The combination gets abused almost daily. We fully intend to drive over that transmission in the near future.

The RR and SR packages are not designed to be cheap. The goal is to provide a matched system that kicks ass. We want to see just how much vehicle performance can be extracted from an automatic transmission. We want you to keep your hands on the wheel and your foot on the gas. That way you are free to concentrate on the perfect line. We've already proved it: A good manumatic will make YOU faster. That's what this is about.

So prices will be comparable to Bowler's own kits. We supply our own torque converters and a paddle shifter. Bowler supplies an installation kit. I haven't run the numbers, but I expect it to be a wash.

My car ran a "clunker" trans for years without fail. It leaked like a sieve and squealed like a pig on WOT upshifts. But it never failed. Poor little transmission. I did very bad things to it. And no way would that trans deserve a Bowler 550 Ft-Lb rating. I never ran slicks.

So there are affordable alternatives. And we WILL honor RR and SR system prices even if you buy the parts in stages. We'll do our best to steer you in the right direction.

[1969CamaroRS]

What about for someone who wanted to rebuild their own trans and was looking for what hard parts to put in it to build it up, or do you only deal with prepackaged transmissions?

Thanks in advance!

[MarkB]

I do not see the pricing coming down on these units. The 450 and 550 ft lbs kits above, do not have the valve body & other internal modifications or Steve's Shrifter in the package. If you look at the whole package the pricing is not as bad as it seems. Remember what you are getting, this is not an off the shelf unit that is assembled by mass production. Each unit is hand built by one person, completely detailed and set up specific to the vehicle. As Steve listed above the amount of new parts that is installed in each unit along with the amount of details you can not get this anywhere else. The valve bodies are carefully prepped, the springs, valves, sleeves, end plugs & surfaces are addressed to ensure that the right combination is put together, surface and valve bore surfaces are very critical and it is important to eliminate cross leaks. The same attention is given to the pump, pressure regulator system, pump vains, rotor, guide, springs to ensure that you transmission will created the proper amount of pressure. No details are missed through out the build. Electronic transmissions are great and the ability to fine tune and set every item is awesome. Tuning electronically is great, but if the right amount of love is not given to the internal working of the transmission you will not get the results you expect. There is hours spent setting up everything properly. You can mask many issues by adjusting shift timing and pressures, but trust me it will bite you in the end.
When comparing transmissions, ensure you are looking at each detail of the components in the transmission and the accessories in the package. Most companies sell the transmission bare bones. Ask some of the other shops to send you a detailed print out of exactly what is going in each unit; it is a very short list. Nothing against other companies, we just look at the whole package and try and address everything differently. It seems like a great deal until you take it out of the box and determine that you have to buy a multitude of additional parts and pieces just to finish the install. Again the focus of these transmissions are complete packages that make everyone’s life easier, and to provide the best overall performance for your project. A transmission is a true precision part of your overall project and is unfortunately overlooked and many times the last item on the list after the budget is blown on the engine and other important components of the vehicle. Remember there is only one way to transfer the power to the pavement! No matter what company you go with, do not ignore the importance of quality. Hopefully a Bowler / Twist Machine transmission package will be considered for your next project.

As Steve tries to break the transmission next week. I will be at the Year One Experience to help answer any questions or if you have your vehicle there and need assistance with tuning just stop by the booth and ask, of course I may have to take it around Road Atlanta to get it fully set up.

Thanks,
Mark
Bowler Performance Transmissions

[TitoJones]

I don't think that pricing is out of line at all for a well built automatic. The Viper spec T-56 is $3600, not including a bellhousing, clutch setup, crossmember etc.

Very well thought out kit. Can't wait to hear your driving impressions.

Tyler

[Steve Chryssos]

What about for someone who wanted to rebuild their own trans and was looking for what hard parts to put in it to build it up, or do you only deal with prepackaged transmissions?

Thanks in advance!

We have paddle shifter/computer and paddle shifter/computer/torque converter package deals. So you CAN go your own way on the transmission.

To reiterate, the goal of these systems is to push the envelope on shift quality and total vehicle performance. We're going after the best OE supercar systems. Over the past four years, we've managed to get these transmissions to shift quickly and predictably through computer tuning. Vehicle performance further improved with torque converter development. As Mark stated, the goal here is to get the most of computer tuning by going inside the transmission.

Bowler or Twist, we both reached the point where cranking up the tune did not yield additional benefits. Mark has spent the last few years developing mechanical blueprinting processes that extract that extra performance. The RR system is about extracted those additional gains. It's an on-going process.

Compushift plays into the formula as well. Unfortunately, it is too technical for bench racing. They employ feed-forward compensation circuitry for their controllers that respond more quickly than GM's standard feedback circuitry. If that sounds like spew, look here: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6222418.html We switched over to Compushift in Vin's blue car and with absolutely no other changes, the car shifts more quickly and predictably. I had to call Mike Hoy to confirm if my observations were valid.

[meenaggie]

Thanks Mark and Steve for all the info (and for the many times you have helped others on this forum even when it was with a product you didn't make a penny from). Looks like a system that you wouldn't be disappointed with if you decided tospend the money. I think Steve hit the nail on the head with matching the transmission system to the rest of your car / engine and what you plan on using it for (i.e autocross or weekend crusing).

[MrQuick]

...so who do I make the check out to?

[Steve Chryssos]

Sorry if that's not exactly clear. We're working together on this. I will add the RR and SR systems to the TwistMachine.com website.
The packages include:
-Bowler Transmission
-ProTorque Torque Converter
-Compushift Transmission Controller-Calibrated
-Twist Machine Paddle Shifter

We don't sell ANYTHING without testing first, so off to Year One we go!

[MrQuick]

ok fine.....i'll wait.

[rjsjea]

.........