Six piston or Four piston Wilwoods?

[cgrady]

Hi everyone, I'm over from Team Camaro.

You guys are the experts. I ordered the 12.2" Dynalites 4 piston front/rear. Now after reading 100's of posts and my head about ready to explode, I'm having second thoughts.

Should I go with the 6 piston Superlite on the 12.2 for the front for an additional $400? (Funny the reason I went with Wilwood over Baer was because of $$$$)

Is it that big a difference? I will be street driving this car, but maybe some day Ill take it to a track, for fun, a couple times.

Thx for your imput. Chad

[ProdigyCustoms]

I think the (6) piston 12.2" set up is the coolest thing to hit the brake market in a while. No 17" wheel clearance issues, and all the bling and increased stopping power.

We can upgrade the calipers. If it were me I would.

Also, I am buying a bulk of those calipers and will be doing a special on the (6) piston upgrade in a couple days.

[silver69camaro]

I'd do it. $400 isn't too bad, and if you are going to splurge on something, do it on brakes. You just can't go wrong.

[hotrodf1]

Another option: you could put you a DIY style Hydroboost on there and get all the stopping power you need. Unless you just "want" 6 pistons. You don't have to buy the high dollar kit if you don't mind doing a little fab work to the bracket. I put Hydroboost on my ride for about $135 or so. $75 for the J/Y unit, $40 for new lines from a 81 Toronado Diesel, free PS pump with late model O-ring style pressure outlet, plus some incidentals. I also added a late model steering box with O-ring connections (quick ratio).

I don't know Wilwood's line in and out, but I would verify that total piston area actually increases with the 6 piston over the 4. If not, then I don't think it would be worth it to upgrade for the extra $ involved.

[Apogee]

...I don't know Wilwood's line in and out, but I would verify that total piston area actually increases with the 6 piston over the 4. If not, then I don't think it would be worth it to upgrade for the extra $ involved.

FYI, most big-brake kits increase the number of pistons and reduce the piston area to improve driver feedback through better force distribution across a larger pad...hence the multiple pistons. Aside from shrouding a larger portion of the rotor (especially in a 12.2" application), the larger pad volume will take more punishment and last longer than a comparable setup with smaller pads.

If you don't upgrade to the 6-pistons now, you'll probably regret it later...otherwise you wouldn't be asking the question. I'd take Frank up on his deal when it becomes available.

Tobin
KORE3

[cgrady]

Talked to Mike at Wilwood. He didnt think the 6 piston would necessarily stop any better then the 4 piston, it will stop the same for longer. (Hard aggressive driving and ocasional lap or 2 around a track)

He was very helpful and honest. Wasnt trying to upsale. Wasnt saying these are track brakes for 1/2 hour runs, just that they would be fine for more than pure street driving.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I agree, but they look cool! The Dynalite (4) piston caliper is plenty capable of the job.

[RSX302]

Ok...this is one area that unfortunately I spent way too much time in.

You would think the SL6 6 piston calipers have more piston area. Not true with this caliper. The SL4 caliper is the same casting and same pad as the SL6 except 2 less and bigger pistons. (SL6 8.05 piston area vs SL4 10.36)One reason Wilwood went to this 6 piston is to reduce pad taper. (why they used less piston area is beyond me. needs a lot of pressure to make them work) space avail issues?
I found this out the hard way.

If you are using the hydroboost system then I doubt it will be an issue. With straight manual master cylinders, I needed to run 3/4" and an 8:1 pedal ratio to make it work. (1200+ psi) Don't try to stop fast with cold BP20's. Need to heat them up first. (3600# car) Will push 100#'s on the pedal easy and will not lock-up wheels. Once hot (500+ degs) not as much pedal pressure is required. ~50-75#'s to lock-up wheels.

I will be selling my SL6's here very soon and jumping up to the GNIII's 6 piston. 1 1/4" longer pad with a lot more piston area. (10.90) mega clamping force. Used in road race application. Not a whole lot more then SL4's but gives more pad area which I like. I will also still use my 3/4" MC set-up and hopefully get back to a reasonable 6:1 pedal ratio as well as trying the BP-10 pads instead. They have a little better low temp friction then the BP20's. I'll step up to the 'E' Pads for the track. I like to go thru the windshield when I hit the brakes.

Lesson learned: SL4 is better then the SL6 with stopping power (clamping force with the same inlet pressure). They can trash the SL6's for all I'm concerned..Sorry Wilwood

[hotrodf1]

Ok...this is one area that unfortunately I spent way too much time in.

You would think the SL6 6 piston calipers have more piston area. Not true with this caliper. The SL4 caliper is the same casting and same pad as the SL6 except 2 less and bigger pistons. (SL6 8.05 piston area vs SL4 10.36)One reason Wilwood went to this 6 piston is to reduce pad taper. (why they used less piston area is beyond me. needs a lot of pressure to make them work) space avail issues?
I found this out the hard way.

If you are using the hydroboost system then I doubt it will be an issue. With straight manual master cylinders, I needed to run 3/4" and an 8:1 pedal ratio to make it work. (1200+ psi) Don't try to stop fast with cold BP20's. Need to heat them up first. (3600# car) Will push 100#'s on the pedal easy and will not lock-up wheels. Once hot (500+ degs) not as much pedal pressure is required. ~50-75#'s to lock-up wheels.

I will be selling my SL6's here very soon and jumping up to the GNIII's 6 piston. 1 1/4" longer pad with a lot more piston area. (10.90) mega clamping force. Used in road race application. Not a whole lot more then SL4's but gives more pad area which I like. I will also still use my 3/4" MC set-up and hopefully get back to a reasonable 6:1 pedal ratio as well as trying the BP-10 pads instead. They have a little better low temp friction then the BP20's. I'll step up to the 'E' Pads for the track. I like to go thru the windshield when I hit the brakes.

Lesson learned: SL4 is better then the SL6 with stopping power (clamping force with the same inlet pressure). They can trash the SL6's for all I'm concerned..Sorry Wilwood

You confirmed my suspicion. . . .

[silver69camaro]

Ron, my experience has been different. My car is equipped with Wilwoods SL6 on a 14" rotor up front and SL4s with 13" rotors in back. BP20's all around, just like yours.

I'm also using Wilwood's balance bar system, which has a 6.25:1 pedal ratio. For the masters, I'm using 3/4" for the fronts and 13/16" for the rear. Overall balance of the car is near 50/50 and 3400lbs with driver and full fluids.

While I wish the pedal ratio was closer to 7:1, brake feel, force, and modulation is excellent. I can hold the brakes VERY close to lockup conditions. But I do agree with the heat aspect, which is why I'm going to switch to a lower temp pad later, and possibly, a smaller rotor.

But I do like a stiffer pedal in most cases. Just my opinion I suppose.

[JustinB]

Im lost! I am getting ready to order brakes for my 69 and every time I read a post and change my mind on what set up to run. My issue is that I have never really heard anything all the great about the Wilwood 12.2" 4 pistons setup except it cheaper than Baer, it looks nice, and looks good on a stat sheet for a car. Now by the time you upgrade the Wilwood kits to include the 6 piston caliper and 13" drilled/slotted rotor the cost is up and you still need to worry about the performance. Am I missing something here?

[silver69camaro]

If your brake system is assisted, you shouldn't have any problems with whatever kit you buy. Manual brakes is where opinions differ.

[JustinB]

By assisted, are you referring to a hydro-boost setup or will these perform well with a normal brake booster/master set up.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Now by the time you upgrade the Wilwood kits to include the 6 piston caliper and 13" drilled/slotted rotor the cost is up and you still need to worry about the performance. Am I missing something here?

Now I am confused? What performance concerns are there with 13" (6) piston stuff? Tire and suspension performance are more of a concern, because there is cetainly enough brake there to challenge the tires / suspension.

For that matter, on a street car, the 12.2" set up is more then enough brake. We probably have more experiance with these brakes then anyone here except possibly Matt = Art Morrison, and performance concerns have never been a issue.

I do not think you can buy a 13" / 12" PBR Baer track kit in a Total Car type package for the same price as a our 13" / 12.2" (6) piston / (4) piston Total Car Brake Package (about $3000). And there both great brakes. But bling for the buck, Wilwood wins big! And also, the internal e brake system on Wilwood is far supieror to the caliper e brake on Baer and does not have the Clearance issues Baer has in mini tub applications.

I personally think our Total Car Brake Package with the 12.2" / 12.2", (6) piston / (4) piston, in a Total Car Brake package for $2050 is super hard to beat in both braking and bling.

[RSX302]

For the masters, I'm using 3/4" for the fronts and 13/16" for the rear. Overall balance of the car is near 50/50 and 3400lbs with driver and full fluids.

While I wish the pedal ratio was closer to 7:1, brake feel, force, and modulation is excellent. I can hold the brakes VERY close to lockup conditions. But I do agree with the heat aspect, which is why I'm going to switch to a lower temp pad later, and possibly, a smaller rotor.

But I do like a stiffer pedal in most cases. Just my opinion I suppose.

I ran the clamping force numbers and the SL6's with the 3/4" MC is very close to the SL4's with the 13/16" MC. It probably works well with the 50/50 wieght dist you have. If you want more up front, change over to the SL4's. Or for all around, go up in the pedal ratio. I would like to keep the pedal ratio lower personally.

[RSX302]

Now I am confused? What performance concerns are there with 13" (6) piston stuff? Tire and suspension performance are more of a concern, because there is cetainly enough brake there to challenge the tires / suspension.

For that matter, on a street car, the 12.2" set up is more then enough brake. We probably have more experiance with these brakes then anyone here except possibly Matt = Art Morrison, and performance concerns have never been a issue.

I do not think you can buy a 13" / 12" PBR Baer track kit in a Total Car type package for the same price as a our 13" / 12.2" (6) piston / (4) piston Total Car Brake Package (about $3000). And there both great brakes. But bling for the buck, Wilwood wins big! And also, the internal e brake system on Wilwood is far supieror to the caliper e brake on Baer and does not have the Clearance issues Baer has in mini tub applications.

I personally think our Total Car Brake Package with the 12.2" / 12.2", (6) piston / (4) piston, in a Total Car Brake package for $2050 is super hard to beat in both braking and bling.

I'm running 18x10's in the front with 275's. Lesser size wheels will most likely slip sooner.

I live right next to Wilwood and took a visited. I had practically everybody in the parking lot. From the main man to the engineers. I did everything they said and still the same outcome. I finally took matters into my own hands and started a major investigation. My findings are as I write.

I'm not saying Wilwoods shuff is bad, but I think people are getting the wrong impression that the SL6 being better. In my opinion, if you want a true 6 piston from Wilwood, step up to the GNII.

[cgrady]

Thx for everyone's imput...I know Baer vs Wilwood is a touchy subject.

ronracer, I thx you for the explanation on 6 vs 4 in your experience. I think Mike at Wilwood was upfront about this. Just difference in opinion on if 6 will hold up longer, it appears. I dont think Ill ever have the type of car you do or the track time (sweet car by the way).

Im looking for a good upgrade from my manual 4 wheel drums with 14x5 wheels. I bought 17x8 F/ 17x9 R and now looking for brakes that wont cost me $3000 (buying trans, rearend, engine, etc. I cant do the $1000-$2000 upgrade on every thing I get:(), but still work to my expectations.

It appears some say 6 piston wont be better, others say it is worth the $400. I know there wont be 100% agreement on brakes from reading tons of "Which is better brake" posts.

Ill let you know what I do and repost when I try them out.

[silver69camaro]

I'm not saying Wilwoods shuff is bad, but I think people are getting the wrong impression that the SL6 being better.

I agree, and I think that's the key here. But, Wilwood (to my knowledge) does not market the SL6 caliper as a true race caliper - they have others that fill that need. Does it work well? Sure it does, but it's more for a bling factor.

I'd love to try the W6 calipers. Lots of piston area and uses 6617 pads.

[RSX302]

I agree, and I think that's the key here. But, Wilwood (to my knowledge) does not market the SL6 caliper as a true race caliper - they have others that fill that need. Does it work well? Sure it does, but it's more for a bling factor.

I'd love to try the W6 calipers. Lots of piston area and uses 6617 pads.

Yes I agree..the SL's are more a high end street caliper. If I were able to go back in time, I would have gotten the SL4's instead. That's why I think the SL6's should be dropped from the line-up. Go to one of the better 6 pistons. The W6 only shows 2 pads? (BP10 & BP20's). would still be better then the SL6's as long as you get the 1.75/1.38/1.38. The 1.62/1.12/1.12 is the same as the SL6 except with more pad area. If your going there..Get it all! and throw the 1.62's on the back...(in a 50/50 dist of course)

I'm going to the GNIII's because its a direct bolt on to my 3.5" mounted SL6's. Same piston area as the W6. It also has all the Pads. Not as purdy however

[RSX302]

Thx for everyone's imput...I know Baer vs Wilwood is a touchy subject.

ronracer, I thx you for the explanation on 6 vs 4 in your experience. I think Mike at Wilwood was upfront about this. Just difference in opinion on if 6 will hold up longer, it appears. I dont think Ill ever have the type of car you do or the track time (sweet car by the way).

Im looking for a good upgrade from my manual 4 wheel drums with 14x5 wheels. I bought 17x8 F/ 17x9 R and now looking for brakes that wont cost me $3000 (buying trans, rearend, engine, etc. I cant do the $1000-$2000 upgrade on every thing I get:(), but still work to my expectations.

It appears some say 6 piston wont be better, others say it is worth the $400. I know there wont be 100% agreement on brakes from reading tons of "Which is better brake" posts.

Ill let you know what I do and repost when I try them out.

I think the SL4's would be the better upgrade for your ride. If you are bent on the SL6's. I would be more then happy to sell you mine for half the price of new ones. Comes with Q pads, Bp20's and E pads.

Let me know if your intrested.