Low budget FI

[TnBlkC230WZ]

I'm trying to put FI on my ZZ4. I want to use as many OEM parts as possible. I like the TPI look, but know the manifold will not keep up beyond 4500 RPM, so I'm considering a Weiland Stealth Ram intake as my one and only new part. the rest I hope to get from a donor car a the local pull apart. I know I can use the TB from and LT or TPI manifold on it, so that is covered.

I have a few of questions

1. I kneed to know if the fuel rails from an LT-1/4 or TPI will work on the Stealth Ram or will I have to invest in the Holley rails?

2. Also, will any GM/Ford/VW fuel injector fit the GM fuel rail? I'm looking for at least 24 lbs, but would like 30 lbs would be best.

3. What am I overlooking?

4. Is there and option other than Weiland Stealth Ram for under $400

Ideally I'm looking for an early mass air system so I don't need a chip change. I believe these should work to about 425 HP. I'll reuse the donor sensors and distributor. I will probably bore the TB to 52 MM to support the ZZ4 as well

[vetteoz]

1. I kneed to know if the fuel rails from an LT-1/4 or TPI will work on the Stealth Ram or will I have to invest in the Holley rails?

None of the OEM rails fit any aftermarket intake

2. Also, will any GM/Ford/VW fuel injector fit the GM fuel rail? I'm looking for at least 24 lbs, but would like 30 lbs would be best.

Most run the SVO injectors because they are cheaper. 24lb more than adequate for ZZ4 ; is rated 355Hp with carb; some run 383's on 24lb.

Ideally I'm looking for an early mass air system so I don't need a chip change.
You will ideally need a retune on the chip ;
the commonly used ARAP code (165 MAF ECM ) is the best but very aggressive on the spark curve mid range for a ZZ4 .
The stock idle (500 ) is lower than what the ZZ4 likes; tends to hunt up and down .Mine idles perfect at 800.
Will run great BUT you will get knock.
The stock code is programmed for 22lb injectors.
HSR (Holley Stealth Ram ) is taller than TPI.

[Olav]

Use the LT1 -93 up intake and TPI ecm/ harness and the other that you need from the TPI. Add some bigger injectors!

Olav

[TnBlkC230WZ]

This raises a few more questions.

Vetteoz:
1. What is the ARAP code? Is it the computer?

Olav:
2. Will the LT-1 intake fit the ZZ4 heads? I was under the impression the LT-1/4 motors with their revearse cooled heads used different intakes and they were not interchangeable with the early style heads, non-Vortec heads.

If the LT-1 will fit and provide enough air to 5600-5800 RPM, that will be the way to go.

[Fuelie Fan]

The LT1 does not fit stock. It won't fit vortec heads either. There is some guy online that modifies them to fit. http://www.lt1intake.com/services.htm

[vetteoz]

[quote=TnBlkC230WZ]This raises a few more questions.

1. What is the ARAP code? Is it the computer?

The GM " 165" ECM is the TPI MAF computer used '86- '89.
It has a plug in chip (memcal ) which contains the programming for a particular application.
Each memcal has a 4 letter code that identifies what it was for.
The ARAP code is from a '89 Vette ; most commonly used for performance upgrades.The memcal can be reburnt with any program / settings you want.

Olav:
2. Will the LT-1 intake fit the ZZ4 heads? .
Needs hole for dist, redrill intake bolt pattern and water outlets from intake to remote thermo housing.Competent home mechanic could do it.

Lots of good info in the stickys here
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/al...t-efi-intakes/

[MonzaRacer]

Skip the LT 1 computer and use an electromotive dis setup and Megasquirt (you can get it in several different forms here www.diyautotune.com) Look around for a cheap laptop in the 600mhz to 1000 mhz nad just keep it in the car to tune with.
I have an LT1 setup and I intend to get it set up with my own DIS setup and hope I can use the 30lb/hr ford Motorsport injectors to begin with or maybe some others I have found IF they are compatiable with E85 as I am building my Monza as a Flex Fuel car. Here is a link to a place that you can buy fuel injector rail from http://www.rossmachineracing.com/index.htm.
Good Luck.

[TnBlkC230WZ]

Thanks for the information guys. The LT-1 intake looks interesting, but I think I will stay with HSR intake. If I can get one really cheap, I may still try to modify it myself. The critical part appears to be the distributor. It doesn't cost much more than the Modified LT-1. The computer was a big help. I wasn't sure what to look for if the donor car didn't have one.

I've had a bad experience with Mega Squirt on a VW. Several people worked on it and never got it running.

Does anyone know any sites that tell how to modify the harness for a transplant?

[vetteoz]

The critical part appears to be the distributor.
Any 86 - 89 TPI F-body small cap dist (remote coil )
F-body 165 ECM and harness; plentiful and cheap

You can get an idea of what is needed from here
Print out one from a 5.7 TPI
http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us...rInfoPages.htm
Obviously all the pollution stuff is redundant.
The GM system has been hacked about so much any competent tuner should be able to program a chip for a ZZ4 combo off the top of his head.

Everthing you need to know
http://www.chevythunder.com/
http://www.fuelinjection.com/portinj.html
http://www.chevythunder.com/fuel%20i...%20pinouts.htm

TPI conversion on 87 Monte Carlo with parts list
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dnut/TPI...arts_List.html

[Olav]

[quote=vetteoz]

This raises a few more questions.

1. What is the ARAP code? Is it the computer?

The GM " 165" ECM is the TPI MAF computer used '86- '89.
It has a plug in chip (memcal ) which contains the programming for a particular application.
Each memcal has a 4 letter code that identifies what it was for.
The ARAP code is from a '89 Vette ; most commonly used for performance upgrades.The memcal can be reburnt with any program / settings you want.

Olav:
2. Will the LT-1 intake fit the ZZ4 heads? .
Needs hole for dist, redrill intake bolt pattern and water outlets from intake to remote thermo housing.Competent home mechanic could do it.

Lots of good info in the stickys here
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/al...t-efi-intakes/

I agree, almost done with my intake....

Olav

[EFI69Cam]

TPI rail works with every aftermarket TPI intake I've ever seen.

[TnBlkC230WZ]

Vette:

Very helpful links. I've been reading them off and on through the day. I really like the Autozone wiring diagrams.

EFI:

Everything I read says the OE rails will not fit the Stealthram, but I will give them a try to save a couple hundred dollars. If the injector spacing is the same, I may only need brakets and lines.

[vetteoz]

FYI;
I put a ZZ4 valve train in my L98 TPI Vette engine which effectively made it a ZZ4 engine ( same 113 alum heads )
Has ported plenum , big tube runners and home siamized stock base
Using the above mentioned stock ARAP tune it ran great (12.9 w 3.07 gears )
However idle was unstable because the cam would not pull down to the 500rpm set on the chip and it had knock at 3000rpm WOT because of the stock spark advance programmed in.ARAP has very aggressive spark curve.

[TnBlkC230WZ]

Were you running the ZZ4 cam? 12.9 is great. I'm running a 3.73 with and M-20 transmission in a 3200 lbs Nova, when I get it put back together. That may eliminate the knock. The knock could also be because it is too lean at at that point as well. The ZZ4 calls for 32 degrees of timing all in at 3000 RPM. I hope to have it painted by the end of March, then it will ge pretty fast.

[vetteoz]

The knock could also be because it is too lean at at that point as well. The ZZ4 calls for 32 degrees of timing all in at 3000 RPM. .

When you get into tuning the actual program , the WOT spark advance table throws in 9 degrees extra at 3200rpm only.
That is on top of the 37 degrees set@ 3200 (crank + dist advance) so you can see lots of advance.
As soon as the ECM sees knock it pulls the advance down .Dial that out on the program and no knock.
As a note , once pass the knock would pull all the way until TPI flatlined so no fuel problem.

[TnBlkC230WZ]

When you get into tuning the actual program , the WOT spark advance table throws in 9 degrees extra at 3200rpm only.
That is on top of the 37 degrees set@ 3200 (crank + dist advance) so you can see lots of advance.
As soon as the ECM sees knock it pulls the advance down .Dial that out on the program and no knock.
As a note , once pass the knock would pull all the way until TPI flatlined so no fuel problem.

This is good to know.

[MonzaRacer]

not too strange on the VW not running with Megasquirt, we had to literally gut the dist on one I worked on, we added a ford style pickup(kind of like MSDs also) nad then got it to run fine.
I HATE VW electronics and such. Major PIA.
Dont knowck the Megasquirt as they now have ready built units and all at DIYautotune.
Basicly I am goingto mod out a DIS from a Cadillac Northstar for mine and let the DIS module give me the trigger for the ECM, I als ofound that I can use smaller VR pickups for the crank siganls and use the dual pickup for the fast crank feature. My big problem is making a cam sensor but I think I have that down.