Any Procharger experts out there??

[D1Camaro]

Hi guys,

Im going from a D1sc with a 12 rib set up to an F1r with a cog. Im looking to make about 20lbs of boost. I am making about 15lbs now with a 4" 12 rib blower pully and the stock crank pully on my D1. What size cog pullies do you think will get me into the 20lb range with my new blower? Tuning time isnt cheap so the less time i spend changing out pullies on the dyno the better.

Thanks

[D1Camaro]

O guess not

[GBodyGMachine]

It is really hard to say. Cog drives dont slip. The F1R blower moves ALOT of air.
I would call procharger and see what they recommend. And it does not take that long to swap a blower pully, Im sure the place tuning the car understands you want a certian boost level, and they will help you achieve it.
JEff

[ProdigyCustoms]

I would love to answer, but there are so many vairiables when calculating boost, or potential boost, it simply cannot be done based on the amount of information you provided. A pulley set up that provides 6 LBS boost on a 350 CI engine, will make almost no boost on a 540 CI engine.

GBodys advice to call ProCharger is good advice. You need to have all your information ready like Cubic inches, cam, heads, headers, intake, trans, gear, amoung other things.

[D1Camaro]

Thanks guys What do you think about using a cog set up on the street?

[ProdigyCustoms]

I think there is no warranty on cog units. I think by buddy just broke the input shaft on his using it on the street. Cogs transfer harmonics, but do not slip!

[Blown353]

Thanks guys What do you think about using a cog set up on the street?

Not such a good idea IMO... see Frank's response below:

I think there is no warranty on cog units. I think by buddy just broke the input shaft on his using it on the street. Cogs transfer harmonics, but do not slip!

Correct. With a cog setup you get NO warranty on the head unit-- the imparted harmonics are much harder on the gearbox & bearings. I bought a cogged F1R setup from Frank last year... cogged only because the customer INSISTED on it for "the cool look." I pushed him for a 12-rib serpentine setup (which was actually cheaper) but he had to have the cogs. There isn't enough use on the setup yet to report back with reliability, it only has dyno time on it at this point.

My preference is for a serpentine setup on the street. If you use a 12 rib belt and mod Procharger's bracket to use a good GM spring tensioner and an idler pulley and you should be good to go even with the F1R at 20 psi.

If you decide on running the cog drive on the street I would probably recommend one of ATI's "sprag drive" setups for it to save some load on the supercharger's gearbox during acceleration/deceleration.

I run an 8-rib belt on my D1SC at 15 psi with a GM spring tensioner & idler retrofit. I'm still using the same belt with over 20K miles on it and still don't get any slip and the belt looks great. It's the same boost curve on every datalog and there is zero evidence of slip on the belt or pulleys. I can't say that about Procharger's out-of-the-box tensioner setup.

[D1Camaro]

Ive never heard of using a GM spring tensioner & idler retrofit. What is it. Can you show me a pic of this. I have been fighting with that stock 12 rib Pro Charger tensioner set up for years.
Thanks

[67 caprice]

Hi guys,

Im going from a D1sc with a 12 rib set up to an F1r with a cog. Im looking to make about 20lbs of boost. I am making about 15lbs now with a 4" 12 rib blower pully and the stock crank pully on my D1. What size cog pullies do you think will get me into the 20lb range with my new blower? Tuning time isnt cheap so the less time i spend changing out pullies on the dyno the better.

Thanks

If you have a D1sc the pulley is the same size as the F1r or F2
Try a smaller pulley first. it is less expesive than a blower.
. http://www.reichardracing.com/index.php
It will help with belt slip a lot. But small pulleys have less contact area than the bigger pulleys.

Make sure that you don't over spin the blower your max RPM is 62000
(Crank Size) / (Pulley) X (4.10)X(Max RPM)=Impeller RPM

[D1Camaro]

I actually already purchased the F1r. I got the head unit for 2 grand brand new. I was happy with the D1 but i couldnt pass up that deal. As for the "Ultra Grip" pullies I did call them a couple of months back about purchasing one of their pullies for my set up. They put me on hold and then told me they didnt have many sizes availible for a 12 rib. I asked them if they could check and see what they have in stock or if they could custom make one. They took down my number and said they would call me back and I never heard from them. I dont want to say anything bad about someones company so ill just not comment about it... I thought about making one myself but Im wondering if it would shread the belt.

[67 caprice]

That's a great deal. Are your Prochager brackets flexing? How much boost are you making with the F1r and the 4" pulley?

[D1Camaro]

No i havent tried it yet. I have the car apart for refreshening. I put the d1SC kit up for auction so Im going to have to buy a new bracket and pullies. I'm still pretty sure im going to go cog so most of that stuff wouldnt have worked on the F1r. I had flexing problems with the D1 so i removed the stock bolt spacers and replaced then with thicker aluminum spacers

[Blown353]

The D1/P1 bracket is pretty flexible and will cause slip problems. I had to add an additional brace on the rear of the blower bracket to the head to minimize it.

My experience with the "sandwich" brackets provided with the larger head units like the F1R is that they are more than adequate, much stiffer than the P1/D1 brackets.

Ive never heard of using a GM spring tensioner & idler retrofit. What is it. Can you show me a pic of this. I have been fighting with that stock 12 rib Pro Charger tensioner set up for years.
Thanks

As far as the tensioner/idler pulley setup, Jody (camcojb on this board) turned me onto Scott at SDCE in Rhode Island. The idler setup is something Scott came up with years ago and sells the crap out of because of all the problems with Procharger's stock setup. It works extremely well, other Procharger guys with stock setups usually can't believe how many miles I have on my belt... and an 8-rib at that! Last time I called Procharger to order a different pulley the tech guy questioned how I was getting an 8-rib to work at my boost level until I told him I was running one of Scott's tensioners... at that point he chuckled and said "yep, that will do the trick." Even they know about the shortcomings with their own setup as much as they don't like to admit it.

Here's a pic:
http://home.comcast.net/%7Eprocharge...belt_setup.jpg

[D1Camaro]

Nice thanks for the info and the picture. More to think about

[SDMAN]

Ive set my F1 up with a cog drive on my Pontiac street car project. There isnt much of a bracket selection for Pontiacs, so we fabbed our own setup to use a common Procharger mounting setup. The prototype of this turned out pretty good. I will be giving the ATI clutch drive a try (45 tooth) to limit the amount of stress caused by a cog drive. I dont know a single person running a centrifugal that hasnt complained to me about slippage with a serpentine belt. Except for the guys that only get 6-8 pounds of boost.

Im currently focused on other aspects of this project, but as soon as the body is on the frame (~6 weeks) and the mock up block is installed we will be test fitting the complete supercharger system to make sure its all good.

[camcojb]

Ive set my F1 up with a cog drive on my Pontiac street car project. There isnt much of a bracket selection for Pontiacs, so we fabbed our own setup to use a common Procharger mounting setup. The prototype of this turned out pretty good. I will be giving the ATI clutch drive a try (45 tooth) to limit the amount of stress caused by a cog drive. I dont know a single person running a centrifugal that hasnt complained to me about slippage with a serpentine belt. Except for the guys that only get 6-8 pounds of boost.

Im currently focused on other aspects of this project, but as soon as the body is on the frame (~6 weeks) and the mock up block is installed we will be test fitting the complete supercharger system to make sure its all good.

My 8 rib held 16 psi without issue, but I was like Blown353 above, had a brace for the main bracket and SD Concept Engineerings tensioner.



Jody

[D1Camaro]

Making boost with a large serpentine pully doesnt seem to be a problem. Its when you want to make more boost and order a smaller pully. That when the problems start. I evern tried adding idler pully under the blower pully to add more of a wrap around effect to the blower pully but it didnt seem to help.

[speedster]

Put a larger diameter pulley on the crank for extra boost. Tiny blower pulleys have very little surface area. Kind of like a TF Dragster running 26" tall tires.

[camcojb]

Making boost with a large serpentine pully doesnt seem to be a problem. Its when you want to make more boost and order a smaller pully. That when the problems start. I evern tried adding idler pully under the blower pully to add more of a wrap around effect to the blower pully but it didnt seem to help.

mine was a 3.85" upper which is pretty common sized, not exactly large. When you get into the old P600B blowers, they took a very small pulley to make any boost. The F series do not require a small pulley, shouldn't be an issue. Just make a brace to stop the main bracket from flexing under throttle (which looses the belt tension), and use a good tensioner from Scott.

Jody

[Procharmo]

Have you got a URL for this Scott guy. I have ordered a F1C to replace my P600B and will be running my existing 8 rib set up. Thanks....