Who's using AIR RIDE? opinions please

[darren@ridetech]

Hi,

I'm following a project build over at lateral-g.net: http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/show...t=10568&page=5

Towards the bottom of that page you can see a comparison between the air ride LCA and a pair of GW LCA's. I was thinking going air ride myself, but when I saw those pics and the discussion that follows I'm not really sure anymore. On the other hand, size does not always matter and the quality of the materials used should be equally important. Weight comparisons would also be useful in the equation.

What do you guys think?

That is one of the older design arms. They were 1" in diameter. We have never had a failure with those arms, but for aesthetics we have changed it to a 1 1/8" .219 wall tubing. Unsprung weight is obviously a concern as well. I just weighed one of our arms with the ball joint and bushing and it was just under 11 lbs.

[marolf101x]

deuce_454,

Spring rates and such:
Though an air spring can be highly progressive (depends on which air spring you are looking at) and the shock is linear, you must remember that it's not often we use the entire stroke of the damper during normal or spirited driving.

Here's why: (let's say, for this example, you are taking a tight left turn)
As the right side of the vehicle is compressed, the air spring is compressed. The air spring starts off with a "street reasonable" spring rate, and as it is compressed in the turn the spring rate quickly increases as the air in the spring is compressed. A spring rate is quickly attained that will hold the vehicle up and roll is halted. As this "magical" spring rate is quickly achieved you don't use much of the shock stroke, so your compression valving is not terribly affected by the increased spring rate.

I really like this attribute of the air spring as I can turn in and allow the car to settle (when the vehicle stops rolling over toward the outside corner). Once it settles it feels like it "digs in" to the pavement and you can start accelerating through the turn.

[AccuAir]

Thanks for the above info. Now you have me wondering and I may add some pressure gauges in the trunk just to see how well the AccuAir system does at leveling with somewhat equal pressure.

Plex,

If you decide to add those pressure gauges, make them temporary because you won't need them. Since established in 2001, we have only had 3 vehicles that were prone to cross loading and they were all light weight vehicles with relatively small volume air springs, (Your car isn't a likely candidate).

Regarding your comment:
"(note: I went and looked at there website and it appears they are not using the Lincoln Navigator levelers anymore)"

The new rotational style sensors that we are using are also over-the-counter replacement parts at Ford. They are a little cheaper then the plunger style and user's like them better because they are smaller and easier to hide.

I'm glad that our system is working well for you in the Tempest! Maybe you can try one of our Gen II Systems being released in April on your next project car.

[AccuAir]

Mr. Marolf from air ride Tech gave a very comprehensive description of the three types of Ride Height Control Systems currently available:

1.) Pressure Based Only
2.) Height Based Only
3.) Height and Pressure Based

Having devoted the last 7 years of my life to developing ride height control systems for vehicles with air suspension, I thought I would at least weigh in on the issue.

For the last 2 years, we have been developing our Gen II Leveling System using the 5 years of accumulated sales experience with our original product. We set out to reduce overall cost, reduce installation time, create weather proof components, and improve overall system performance. One of the frustrations with all previous systems was that once they achieved level, they went to "sleep" by design. So if you happen to park on a slanted driveway, you would have to remember to re-level the vehicle once you were on level ground. The same scenario applied if you added passengers or luggage, you would have to remember to ask the system to re-level. A larger concern was that small air leaks could cause unwanted height changes over long trips. We knew that a more intelligent system had to be created.

Although there were no previous systems that had the ability to "monitor" and adjust the heights successfully while driving, we set our sites high (at times I thought too high =). After about 8000 man hours, I can finally say that a fourth type of ride height control system must be added to the list:

4.) Height Based with Ride Monitor™ Technology

This type of system is not "fully active"... meaning it will not respond to transients like corners etc, (That would require a completely different overall system approach). Instead it works by accumulating dynamic height data (200 times per second) over a 60 second time period (while driving) to determine if any corner of the vehicle has fallen out of tolerance and needs adjustment (while canceling unwanted skews like driveways, freeway on-ramps, etc). A system of this caliber has to know a lot about each vehicle and it's suspension system to make flawless adjustments in any circumstance. For this, we created a method that allows the system to constantly "learn" the vehicle and its operating parameters, (similar to todays fuel injection systems, they get smarter the more you drive it).
An added benefit to approaching height control with this much precision is the ability to eliminate air spring cross loading without the use of pressure sensors (the previous concern with height based only systems). Our website will have video proof when our Gen II Leveling System launches in April of this year. Unfortunately, the complete description behind this portion of the system is proprietary at this time, but I will say that dynamic spring rates are being calculated on the fly.

Side note, I enjoy seeing all of the educated debate about Air Suspension vs. Coil Springs on this forum. In general, I think that it is unfortunate that so many previous air suspensions have been setup and installed improperly giving people a "bad taste". Lucky for all of us, air ride Technologies has been persistent in their approach and created some well designed, "bolt-in" suspension systems that demonstrate a balance between handling and comfort that conventional metal springs simply can't provide. Perfected technology of the control systems behind the air spring will surely create the overall best performing air suspended vehicles to date... and maybe someday the Air vs. Coil debate will end!

[64Chevelle]

I still can't seem to decide which route to go with my car...

With coilovers both ride height and springrate can be adjusted, but what about air springs?

I currently have the understanding that with the air ride springs one parameter will always affect the other and that there is no way to adjust both at the same time. Say I install the springs and adjust the pressure to get the spring rate I want for a certain track, but I would also like to lower the ride height just like with a coilover. Can it be done? Is there some physical height only adjustment on the spring?