Best rear suspension. Speak up.

[ss dave]

Ok, lets hash this out. 69 Camaro, now with Global West Catagory 5 leafs, very stiff, firm, can't easily push down the fender. Love the ride, handles very well and hooked well with old powerplant. But want to tub it, more hp, need the rubber for traction. Put in a new Ricks standard size tank which I want to keep, therefore I will need a new rear suspension. Want to keep the stiffness and still hook. So which is better, pros/con DSE Quad or G bar or some other? Ideas? Thanks

[Lowend]

The only system out there I would consider to be significantly better than the Cat V setup would be the Lateral Dynamics 3-link
http://www.lateral-dynamics.com/

[chicane67]

Mark's three link comes to mind...

...and nothing else compares in my opinion.

[jason@gmachine]

...and nothing else compares in my opinion.

yet.

Jason

[Smock67]

yet.

Jason

So what are you hinting at hmmmmmmmm?

[chicane67]

yet.

That is pretty damn bold. I'll be blatently honest with you Jason... it is going to be a very long time before my opinion changes.

It took Marks set-up to make me even look and consider the use of anything other than my custom leaf springs... and that says a-lot. Especially considering that leafs work so damn good... if you know what you are doing with them.

[jason@gmachine]

That is pretty damn bold. I'll be blatently honest with you Jason... it is going to be a very long time before my opinion changes.

It took Marks set-up to make me even look and consider the use of anything other than my custom leaf springs... and that says a-lot. Especially considering that leafs work so damn good... if you know what you are doing with them.

bold is my middle name.

so what happens if we do change your mind? LOL.

the LD 3 link is a great kit, hands down a top notch unit that will work great for a serious driver. I do give him credit because credit is due. I agree with you about the leafs, i want to come out with a leaf package as well after a few other products are released. I think that with custom leafs, upgraded shocks, trac bars, and panhard bar the rear will hold up great. The key to the leaf setup is in the shock valving and the use of the panhard bar.

Jason

[ProdigyCustoms]

I would have to agree, in a full on project that is going to see heavy track usage or competition, I would use a 3 link or independant. And Mark's 3 link is the best built for application available for our beloved Camaros. And none of the independant are very easy to install. For ease of installation, and a damn good system for a serious street car that may see track time, but needs a nice ride and a in the garage install, The G Bar / Air Bar is hard to beat.

[ss dave]

Thanks, as always I respect your opinions. I know Tyler's background and his experience. Frank, I'll talk to you on Tues. to see how that mock up with the G bar and Moser is coming along. Jason, got something coming on down the road...yet? I'm going to research LG's set-up a little more thoroughly, I've shyed away from it because of what I've read about the installation and the required mods. Since this is a street car, I'm leaning towards the G bar. But I just love the way my GW leafs feel. I'm 200# and can hardly depress the fender when I put most my weight on it. There is no cornering dips or sways. if the G bar can do that, I'm all over it. Thanks

[ss dave]

I looked at LG web site and all I go to say is Dam! thats somethin! Unfortunately I would like to keep my rear seat and not do that much mods, but that 3 link is really nice. I was mistaken on my initial thread I only have the L-2 GW spring set, not the Cat 5, sorry, sorry. I am really leaning now towards a G-bar. Looked it over again and I think it will satisfiy my needs.

[chicane67]

You can still have your back seat(s) and your cake... and eat them both.

You could use late model F-body buckets and the centerlink well would become the arm rest for the rear passengers.

Ya know Dave... it sucks to be you right now. There are alot of good things to consider and the decision isnt going to be easy.

[ss dave]

Thanks Tyler, I agree it's all good. I didn't know ATS had leafs, looked on your site and couldn't find em. That's a great idea, have you done that ? If you have I would appreciate a look see. Thanks

[chicane67]

Tyler = TitoJones
Tom = Chicane
Shane = Wickedmotorhead

The leafs are my bag... not necessarily Tylers. When a client needs leafs... that is when I step in.

No pictures of the seats... although, I have seen some somewhere around this forum (its been done before) and on another couple of boards. Ill see if I can find them again...

[ss dave]

Sorry, sorry, sorry. My mistake, that's what I get for assumming, I make a ass um me. Yea if you can get pics that would be great. I'm trying to keep an original look as much as possible- I covered the front Procar seats in comfortweave in the same pattern as the originals. Again, sorry Tom.

[chicane67]

Hey man... dont sweat it. It's all good...

Yeah... Ill try and find those pictures. From what I remember, it actually looked factory with the seat partition closed out in fabric covered sheet aluminum. The pictures didnt have a three link well between the seats, but, there was just enough space to make it look like it was susposed to be there.

[chicane67]

Well... actually, the key to a leaf suspension... is the leafs.

A PHB is an unnecessary item on a leaf suspension... not to mention that it is geometrically unsound and has too many bind issues for the length that you have to work with. The real key to a leaf spring suspension is the leaf and the bushings... and then complimenting them with a good double digressive DA damper. You can control the IC and the forward bite with the front half of the spring and the rear squat and braking with the rear half.

I hear you on bringing a leaf suspension to the game and it being a real player. I should know... I have been building custom FIA leaf springs for road race chassis' for 15+ years and personally dont run anything but leafs on my own.

But... if I wanted to play harder and have the adjustability within minutes... a link suspension is the hands down winner and Marks design has taken the approach to a whole different level.

[jason@gmachine]

Well... actually, the key to a leaf suspension... is the leafs.

A PHB is an unnecessary item on a leaf suspension... not to mention that it is geometrically unsound and has too many bind issues for the length that you have to work with. The real key to a leaf spring suspension is the leaf and the bushings... and then complimenting them with a good double digressive DA damper. You can control the IC and the forward bite with the front half of the spring and the rear squat and braking with the rear half.

I hear you on bringing a leaf suspension to the game and it being a real player. I should know... I have been building custom FIA leaf springs for road race chassis' for 15+ years and personally dont run anything but leafs on my own.

But... if I wanted to play harder and have the adjustability within minutes... a link suspension is the hands down winner and Marks design has taken the approach to a whole different level.

sorry, my vague answer was just that, vague.

when i said "custom leafs" i was refeering to this
"The real key to a leaf spring suspension is the leaf and the bushings... and then complimenting them with a good double digressive DA damper. You can control the IC and the forward bite with the front half of the spring and the rear squat and braking with the rear half."

the shocks, i assumed that we passed the leafs so the next thing i wanted to work with was the valving in the shocks to compliment the leafs. We have a new Penske rep that has been working with us a setup. Our 3 link will have penske and so will the other kits we will offer, no more bilstein.

now for the length- yes that becomes an issue, we have thrown around a few ideas on this matter and when we are ready, we will develop this further. I like the simplicity of a leaf setup and i think our next project car will be a leaf setup, with a mild setup up front. So, basically a great car w/o the use of c/o in front or rear.

reality, not everyone wants to spend the money for a link setup, expecially if you can get a great leaf setup that will allow for some fun and not break the bank.

Jason

[SN65]

Ok, lets hash this out. 69 Camaro, now with Global West Catagory 5 leafs, very stiff, firm, can't easily push down the fender. Love the ride, handles very well and hooked well with old powerplant. But want to tub it, more hp, need the rubber for traction. Put in a new Ricks standard size tank which I want to keep, therefore I will need a new rear suspension. Want to keep the stiffness and still hook. So which is better, pros/con DSE Quad or G bar or some other? Ideas? Thanks

Hi Dave,

Can't say that I know much about the early Camaro but I will throw my two cents in.

I will start with some basic questions....

No one else seemed to ask, so I guess I will. What is the intended use of the car? That will have a huge impact on your final decision.

In your statement you said you wanted it to "hook". Is this something you will be running at the drag strip? Or, is this something you will be running on a road course or autocross? The best setup for one will not be the best for the other.

Also, you say you are going to up the HP. How much? If you are going to pass the 700 Foot pound of tourqe range (and the car does hook up), you are going to have to be very carefull about the rear setup. You will note that the LD center link attaches to the rear end with two tabs at the top of diff cover. How strong are these tabs? How strong is the diff at the mounting point? How much torque they will handle? LD should list it somewhere but I did not see it at their site. What about dynamic verses static loads? Are you using a auto or a stick? What happens if you rev your new powerplant up to about 4,500 RPM and drop the clutch? Will the rear end housing take the impact?

Again, don't know much about early Camaros. Just some questions I would be asking myself if I were building a Camaro project car.

[ss dave]

Bob, thanks for asking. It is a auto, convertible street car with a new powerplant. The last engine was a 383 with 335rwhp and 368tq. Hooked good and I loved the way it felt on corners, like rails! 245's Nittos up front and 275's back. The newer, lighter SBC engine is just shy of 500rwhp and tq- different animal. It won't see any road race courses, but I don't want to give up that G force sensation when cornering. Definitely want to launch well from the line. The best of both worlds-is that asking too much? LOL Currently, I'm just blowin rubber to the limiter if pushed hard off the line, and I haven't had the stones to push it hard thru the ss's. I believe more rear footprint would benefit both goals, therefore the tubbing. I'm open for suggestions. Thanks

[parsonsj]

Dave,

More rear footprint will probably not help your handling very much ... and will probably make it worse. More rear footprint increase your rear suspension's traction while making lateral maneuvers, but you are front suspension limited.

IOW, your car will probably push worse with bigger rear tires.

jp