Buying a car from a different state?

[ProTour69GTO]

I am talking to a guy that lives in Virginia( I live in Florida) about a 69 GTO that he wants to sell. He sent me pics and the car is exactly what im looking for also the price is right. My questions for you guys is:
How many of you bought cars from different states?
What kind of tips can you give me so I dont get screwed and what to look out for?
Anything else i should know?

[dropit69]

well what alot of guys on here do is find a board memeber in that state that is willing to look at car in person for you..give you acuratte account of car and sometimes make sure it gets put on trailer for ya..throw them a few bucks for there time..there is nothing like seeing the car in person..

[StRacerDuke]

It's usually a simple process provided the person has the title. I've bought cars from NV and registered them in CA without issues. One of the titles was a non-op in NV and it was no problem provided I had the title.

If the owner doesn't have the title make sure they file a lost title request in their state and get it before you complete the sale. It's much easier for all involved then you trying to get a lost title for a car you bought in another state without a title

[ALLFAITH]

Go on your state's DMV webiste-they usually tell you what documents are required from out of state Sellers. I have done that in NY and it is very helpful

Brad

[rob07002]

Bought my vert in MD and I live in NJ. Like others have said, ask a fellow member to see the car in person bring a trailer and make sure the seller has the title.

I had no problems at all when I regd the car in NJ.

[Project69]

Im from FL also and i bought my camaro from MN. I just had the guy send me pics of the whole car. 165 to be exact, he took pics of the trunk, every angle in the interior and engine and had the car on a lift for the underbody and suspension.

[ProTouring442]

I'm in Maryland and have titled vehicles purchased in MI, NC, GA, VA, and AZ, all with no issues. Just make sure you get a title and a bill of sale and you should be golden.

By the way, where in VA is it? I would be willing to go have a look at it, and give you a full report. I'll PM you with my numbers.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[Patrick]

I live in FLA and I too have bought cars from out of state. Florida DMV can be very picky. Make sure you have a Bill of Sale and title from the person selling the car. I bought a car from NV, in which the seller picked up the car locally with the intentions of immediately re-selling. So, he did not title the car in his name. When I bought it, the bill of sale was in his name but the title was in the original owner's name. Technically, he had no legal right to sell me the car since his name was not on the title. The original owner was still around and was gracious enough to send me the bill of sale in his name--which then matched the name on the title.

Sorry for the long winded story...but weird stuff can happen when you buy a car from out of state.

[vintageracer]

Read Patricks post carefully.

He was VERY LUCKY that the LEGAL owner of the car would help him with a legal bill of sale since MANY sellers of cars these days ARE NOT the legal/licensed owner of the car. They buy cars for resale and sell them "Open Title". Open Title is where the owner listed on the front of the title sells the car and signs the back of the title and DOES NOT make the 1st buyer fill his name in on the title and therefore register the car AND pay the proper taxes and registration. This buyer then illegally resells the car car "Open Title".

This is ILLEGAL in all 50 states! In reality you are handing money to a person for a car that they do not legally own. Probably not the best idea!

Having said that, "Open Title" sales of cars is done EVERYDAY! The problem comes when the YOU (the buyer) buy an "open title" car and have registration problems at the DMV. You really need a Bill of Sale from the person listed as the owner on the front of the title showing he/she sold you the car. Usually "at best" all you will get is a Bill of Sale from the person selling the "Open Title" car and most importantly, who legally does not own the car and therefore does not have the legal right to sell the car. The ONLY legal way a person selling an "Open Title" car can legally do this is when the non-legal seller has a "Power of Attorney" appointing this non-legal seller as the the legal "agent" to represent the seller in all aspects of the sale of this vehicle. Selling vehicles "Open Title" without legal "Power of Attorney" from the legal owner is called "Curbstoning" in the car business and is ILLEGAL everywhere!

The problem arises when there is a problem at the DMV where they may want another form signed or "notarized" by the legal owner. What are you going to do??? Many cars sold open title may have passed through 3 or 4 sellers before you bought the car. You may call the legal owner listed on the front of the title and they may say I sold the car to buyer 1 not you so go talk to him! Buyer 1 may say that he did not buy the car and the guy you bought the car from will also say the same thing since he/she also does not want to get involved in title and registration fraud problems and MOST importantly, SALES TAX FRAUD issues! This is a REAL problem is that ALL the states in the USA want ALL the sales tax revenue they are due on automobiles transfers and will prosecute you to get ALL the money legally due the state on this automobile transaction!

The State of Tennessee Department of Revenue employess at least 2 people to "AUDIT" all automobile sales transaction to make sure that they are reasonable (dollar amount vehicle sold for based upon make and model) and will audit a transaction that does not fit current market values. An example of sales tax fraud would be "saying" you bought a 2006 Porsche from an individual seller/owner for $10,000 when the car is really worth $50,000. This CAN happen however you better have a Notarized Bill of Sale from the seller stating this price. If you do not the state will "audit" this transaction by calling the seller to see what you really did pay. If they catch you they will fine you and make you pay sales tax based upon full market value that the STATE establishes!

If you bought the Porsche in the example above "Open Title" from the non-legal owner without the right sales paperwork AND LIED about the sales price, you and the non-legal owner will be in deep doo doo! The non-legal owner will also have a big problem as the state will also make him title/register the car first AND pay proper sales tax. Big double sales tax payment for the state!

Also, who is to say that the car you bought "Open Title" is not stolen or has been sold under circumstances that my later cause YOU a problem. Is the "Open Title" in the posession of the non-legal seller a "Duplicate Title"? It may definitely be worth a call to the legal owner listed on the front of the title to ask some questions and find out why the title is a duplicate!

A friend of mine was going to buy Viper out of Florida several years ago. He had the legal owner/seller fax him a copy of the title since something did not "feel" right. The owner/seller faxed him a copy of the title in the sellers name that was clear with no lein. My friend called the DMV in Florida with the title number and found that the title faxed to him was not current as the seller had placed a lein on the car 6 day earlier with a finance company. The seller was willing to commit Felony Fraud as he was selling "Mortgaged Property" that he owned but now had a lein. Therefore he did not have the ability to produce a clear title. My friend Mike was lucky and followed his "feelings" since he as unwilling, not unable, to travel to Florida to personally do the deal AND look at the car. His laziness ALMOST cost him $60K and a LOT of hassle. In this case the seller repeatedly said there was NO LEIN on the Viper!

As much as MOST of you may hate Licensed Car Dealers, you have MUCH MORE recourse against a selling dealer than you do against a private selling owner when and if you ever have a problem. You have REAL problems when the seller does not legally own the car and there are title/registration problems. All a legal private seller has to say to the judge is "The car sale was a casual sale and I am not a professional" and they will get away with most sins. A licensed dealer cannot do that AND the State DMV will most likely TELL the dealer what they MUST do to resolve the problem!!!! If the seller is not the legal owner and is selling the car "open title" they will usually deny any and all knowledge of the car and the transaction.

Consider all the above when buying your next vehicle!

[Bill Howell]

Well spoken Mike, and since I know you personally and know you have much experience in buying/selling cars both locally and nation wide, thanks for writting such a great post on the subject.

[MonzaRacer]

On a more startling note,,, A notary seal hase NO legal meaning nor is considered anything but what you see.
I bought a car and it had an older title that had to be notarized, then the son of the guy I bought the car from wanted it back. I had a signed ,notarized title AND had gotten a notarized bill of sale. And upon going to court on the car the judge simply stated that anuthing notarized meant NOTHING, then because it was across state lines the judge bucked it up to federal court.
I educated my self very well and didnt take a lawyer and the fed judge had one sit with me, free at least.
Anyway I still had the current title in my name only and the fed judge told me a notary seal means nothing legally.
The seal is SUPPOSED to be wittness to the signing and dating of the title.
My good fortune was that its title was original, and it hadnt been registered in over 10 yrs which made Indiana consider it a dead title, and the orginal a simple transfer document.
The son had no legal recourse to get the car back and then wanted the judge to give him more money for it as he had "tried" to get his father classified as senile or incompetent. then the judge told him off and told me I should have taken more time during my purchase to investigate.
Well I had 17 letters on the car, 2 police reports, including one from a cop who was close personal friend of the old guy. Phone records of the talks about it. ALL for a $500 car.
Now it didnt cost me anything in court but my time off work and the trip out of state.
Cover your ass in paper BUT a notary seal means nothing legally and thats from a FEDERAL judge.
But if you must have it for some state documents then by all means find a web site in that state and locate a currently certed one near your newest toy you are trying to buy.
As for the open title in Indiana they have several "reassignments" on the title and you should get the recipt for everyone of them unless its wrote down as a "gift" or the price is "$o" or "trade" .
So the open title isnt required to buy and flip a car.
Good Luck.

[E30M30]

Back in 2005 I was about to purchase my first "american car" I live in Denmark/Europe and we haven't got that many US cars over here. I found a 67 firebird in New York. Then I asked if anyone on this fantastic site could help me out, by taking a look at the car (since I live half way round the world) Steve / streetfytr68 offered to help me out. He went out to Seller and took a lot of pictures and gave me some advise. Then he offered me to take the Car back to his place until I could have it shipped over here. Steve didn't want anything, he was just happy to help... Amazing. So if anyone could use my help someday. I'd be happy help !! So if I was you I would asked the fantastic members on this site to take a look at the car for you.

[ProTour69GTO]

Thanks for the info guys i had to let the deal go cause of shipping issuses.

[vintageracer]

MonzaRacer,

Check those "reassingment" areas on the back of an Indiana title. "IF" they are like all other state titles those areas are for "Reassingment by a Licesned Dealer Only" not individuals repeatedly selling the same car without registration and title transfer. Most states do not require licensed dealers to "title" cars. Dealers are allowed to fill in their business name as the purchaser of the vehicle and then "reassign" the vehicle to their customer who may be another dealer of individual retail customer. That's why there is usually 2 or 3 areas for reassingment on the back of a title for licensed dealers use only. The dealer may sell the car to another dealer who may then "retail" the car or sell again to another dealer. There are also title extenstions available for use in most states when the back of the title if full from mulitiple sales of the same car between dealers only. Indiana "may" be different but I would be surprised given all the cars I have purchased across the US in many different states of which all only allow dealers the right of title reassingment without registration, not individuals! I have not purchased an Indiana car in years so they "may" be different.

As far as notarization, you are right as the notary is only notarizing fact that the seller did in fact sign the title and bill of sale in the presence of the notary if both were presented to the notary and the notary did in fact witness the signature on that date. That should make if VERY hard for a seller to back out of a deal since they did in fact sign the paperwork AND the notary can be issued a supeona to testify to that fact in court that the seller did sign the paperwork for the sale of the vehicle. At this point the only issue would be whether proper and full payment for the vehicle did actually occur. A notary stamp has no legal standing as far as to whether the deal may be legal or not, only the fact that the notary witnessed the seller and buyer sign the paperwork on that specific date.

[MonzaRacer]

No the judge told me that a notary seal is worth NOTHING.Its not even worth the ink used to sign it.
Basicly a signature is a contract, legal or otherwise. the notary seal is worthless.Now if your state requires one get by all means,,, just dont trust it too far.
Some titles can be reassigned by private persons in some states. also you need to know hopw many cars you can buy/sell in your state as in Indiana you can sell 11 cars per name. Anymore and you can be tagged as an unlicensed car dealer and fined.
Friend did this as he bought and dumped 13 cars as they were junk(ie undriveable) and then tried to buy a newer car and the state came and talked to him.
Luckily he has docum,entation of each cars problems and what it would have taken to fix each one and the investigator thanked him, closed the file and said he was sorry he had got so many bum cars.