SEMA Action Alert - CA

[Steve1968LS2]

Actually Steve's use of that quote is quite appropriate. The path to totalitarianism is not a overnight change, but a slippery slope. Once a line is crossed there is no going back. SEMA is doing for the old car hobbyist what the NRA does for gun owners, they are keeping us off that slope.

Many intellectuals from the cold war era are warning us that radical environmentalism is even more of a danger than communism was.
We do need to be mindful of the impact of our actions on others, but that is not something I want the goverment doing for me.

Brilliant! (in that Guiness voice)

Yep, and while we won't let this topic get political there's no denying the fact that politics do, at times, effect our hobby. There are certain groups out there that would ban all cars tomorrow if they could. It's up to us, as members of this hobby, to make sure that what the politicians do is reasonable for the entire hobby and not just wait around until it eventually effects us. By then it will most likely be too late.

[CraigMBA]

Many intellectuals from the cold war era are warning us that radical environmentalism is even more of a danger than communism was.
We do need to be mindful of the impact of our actions on others, but that is not something I want the goverment doing for me.

Oh?

Cites please.

[Damn True]

For petes sake!

These cars are ALREADY GETTING TESTED.

The change in the law will require new cars to get tested LESS FREQUENTLY and older cars to get tested MORE FREQUENTLY.

Which is exactly why the bill is so wrong-headed. There are far fewer "old" cars on the road to begin with. The majority of those "old" cars are driven by people who drive them because they elect to do so. Therefore they are more likely to take good care of them.

It's the 10 year old import that is barely running that is the real contributor. There are more of them, and people drive them because it's all they can afford. Therefore they are NOT well maintained and more likely to be in a poor state of tune.

[CraigMBA]

It's the 10 year old import that is barely running that is the real contributor. There are more of them, and people drive them because it's all they can afford. Therefore they are NOT well maintained and more likely to be in a poor state of tune.

Incidentally, that's exactly who they are targeting.

I called the transportation office this morning to get more informed on the subject. Their phone number is 916-651-4121. I asked them several questions about AB 616 – pointed, hard questions, was treated with professionalism and courtesy. Rather than take my word for it, I encourage you to do the same.

AB 616 is an air quality improvement bill that will mandate vehicles 15 years and older get inspected annually, and new vehicles less often. I asked if the exemption for pre 1976 vehicles would change. They remain exempt.

When I asked how this legislation came about, the lady at Transportation told me it had been suggested jointly by the Bureau of Automotive Repair and the Air Resources Board in an effort to lower vehicle emissions on the highest likely polluters.

I asked why they were targeting older cars. She told me that mobile source pollution was the biggest source of polution in the state of California, and they were trying to do what they could to make sure these older cars which are more likely to fail were in compliance. I baited her and said “I understand, get them into compliance or get them off the road” and she corrected me that their intention was simply to get into compliance.

The net effect of this is if you drive a 1992-1976 car or truck you can expect to take an extra trip to the local smog check. If you have a 1993-2007 car or truck you won’t be forced to go as often.

On a personal note, I make my living from the automotive business. My bread and butter is calling on technicians. I have twenty or so shops that do smog testing. I see first hand some of the crap that people bring in trying to get smogged and it just amazes me.

[Damn True]

Thanks for the clarification. I misunderstood.

[JMarsa]

Doesn't CA have a silly tax on cars coming in from other states to be registerd there?

--JMarsa

[Damn True]

We are trying to discourage people from moving here.

[Jim Nilsen]

Sounds like they are trying to deter certain people from living there too!

[CraigMBA]

Doesn't CA have a silly tax on cars coming in from other states to be registerd there?

--JMarsa

It's sales tax.

People were buying cars in states with lower or zero sales tax and bringing them into California to avoid paying CA sales tax.

This is one of the many far reaching effects of Proposition 13 that passed in 1976 that capped property tax. Love them or hate them, the government is going to spend money and if you take away thier ability to tax something they'll just bury you somewhere else.

[zbugger]

...I asked if the exemption for pre 1976 vehicles would change. They remain exempt....

Craig, I mentioned this earlier, and it's also in the original post here.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...26&postcount=3

As for the politicians getting their cars smogged, many of them drive FLEET CARS that are exempt from emissions testing. While yes, they are newer cars, and supposedly well maintained by the state, they don't have to go through the things we lay people do. Oh, and for all the people talking about the governor driving a gas guzzling Hummer, it's a hybrid. He took the lead a while ago, and quite a few retards only see it for the vehicle body.

[MonzaRacer]

{quote}I asked why they were targeting older cars. She told me that mobile source pollution was the biggest source of polution in the state of California, and they were trying to do what they could to make sure these older cars which are more likely to fail were in compliance. I baited her and said “I understand, get them into compliance or get them off the road” and she corrected me that their intention was simply to get into compliance.

The net effect of this is if you drive a 1992-1976 car or truck you can expect to take an extra trip to the local smog check. If you have a 1993-2007 car or truck you won’t be forced to go as often.

On a personal note, I make my living from the automotive business. My bread and butter is calling on technicians. I have twenty or so shops that do smog testing. I see first hand some of the crap that people bring in trying to get smogged and it just amazes me.{quote}

HAHAHA you have got to be the most gullible person out there. The biggest source of polution in California is the industrial infrastructure that buys old cars regardless of condition or even if they will/wont pass a sniffer test.
A company that can buy emission credits for $750 per car rather than spend the millions on FIXING thier own emissions, is the problem.
If I can I will find the results from the BMV study in California the percentages of older cars(ie daily drivers from mid 93 down that do not have OBDII and cannot actually "pass" themselves on monitors.
The systems monitors are there to make sure that all systems that were designed into the car are still there and working in a satisfactory manner.
This is to insure that the car isnt messed with, and all of the devices that are installed to make the exhaust emissions as clean as possible.
Craig I cant believe you ask a question like that and just swallowed it.
No disrespect intended BUT I do know that for the fact that high horsepower, well tuned (late model OBDII, EFI) cars emit less unburned hydrocarbons and CO as they are usually working more efficiently AND getting better mileage.
I for one can show off a friends car after he gets back from Iraq and this car is a 66 Mustang, WITH a carb and it can and will deliver well over 400 hp from the 289, gets 32 MPG with the gears/OD, and it can darn near pass a California sniffer test,,,WITHOUT cats, for an 06 Mustang GT.
The Random Technology cats are sitting in my closet waitng till next Feb.
See guys this is the same stuff that gets passed around, someone comes up and says that this is for the best but the honest truth it is a load of hogwash.
IF they wanted to actually make a good standard, it would require only the limited parts for emissions on non OBDII cars as long as the Vapor recovery system is intact and functioning, the cats are properly replaced(ie functioning and proper for the year, one way,2 way or 3 way, which ever came on it) AND it passes a sniffer test AND the customer has to bring it in with an empty tank so they can use the spec California fuel (ie not some E85 or super mix brewed up to pass the test but you could specify regular grade or super unleaded) as this would just keep the playing field level for all people and then let say a specialy preped vehicle request say 100 octane unleaded (but this would get you a limit mileage tag rather than a unlimited tag (ie DD).
As long as the car doesnt peg the meter and runs well enough to be fixed under a specific repair amount (the old pass if it was over a certainamount to bring into compliance) then let it go as long as the owner gets specified repairs done THIS test session.
So this is similar to what I proposed.
Let companies make aftermarket vapor recovery equipment that looks good and functions AND let you do ANY mods you want as long as the car doesnt emit the bad stuff out the tailpipe and can pass it at anytime(ie you may get called to stop by on the way home or stopped along side the road to take a sniffer test)
As long as the car isnt modified you get the repair waiver, if it is you got X number of days to pass without any fuel tank gimicks and run State spec fuels. Then you can drive.
It simple instead of making it hard on our hobby we need to get thier attention and let them know that if they get off our back we would have clean mean cars rather than gross polluters.
Ther number of older cars on the road are FAR outweighed by the commercial industry in California and thier lack of cleanup.

[CraigMBA]

Craig, I mentioned this earlier, and it's also in the original post here.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...26&postcount=3

As for the politicians getting their cars smogged, many of them drive FLEET CARS that are exempt from emissions testing.

Orange County Fire Authority smog checks every gas burning vehicle they have in thier 600+ car fleet. I can't speak for the state.

[CraigMBA]

HAHAHA you have got to be the most gullible person out there. The biggest source of polution in California is the industrial infrastructure that buys old cars regardless of condition or even if they will/wont pass a sniffer test.

If you make a claim like this you should be able to prove it. Cites please.

Further, I have no doubt you can build a car to pass the sniffer test. Give the change in the law, you should be able to do anything you want to it for the first five years because it looks like that will be the interval for the first inspection.