4L60E, 4L80E, or 4L65E

[MoeBawlz]

does anyone know how much power each of these transes can hold? I currently have a TH350 and want to go with something more modern and electronic. Will my crossmember work with any of these transes? And if so will i have to relocate it or can i leave it where it is now.



If it matters my car is a 68 Camaro and has a small block that will push around 800hp. I need something that will withstand that much hp minimally.

Thanks in advance

[protour_chevelle]

Either one your going to have to build. 4l60e will not be worth building. 4l80e can be built to hold those #'s you are talking about EASILY. The 4l65e is a really nice tranny from what I gather. I will be running a 4l80e with about 700+ engine horsepower.(if everything goes according to plan).

-Matt

[MoeBawlz]

Ok so im looking at a 4L80E... Anyone have a good company I should look at for pricing and quality?

Im looking at both Full manual valve bodys, and electronically controlled.

[protour_chevelle]

I'm not sure as far as company's that build the tranny but I thought this tid bit from Parish's website might be interesting.

The 4L80E I have in my new truck has taken me into the 10's with nothing more than a $109 shift kit. The tranny came from the junk yard and had at least 50,000miles on it before I got it. This really shows the strength of the 4L80E. I expect to have to build it at some point, but hopefully only once. I have seen ratings for built units in the 1200 horsepower range.

-Matt

[Texas Hotrod]

I have a friend that totally rebuilt a Monte Carlo and opted for a 4L80. He swapped in a 4L60 to save some weight, the 4L80 is for sale if you're interested. It seemed to work perfectly when I drove it a few months ago.

Instead of beating around a bush, I'll give you his cell #.
Chris @ 830-583-6798

Good luck,
Gene

[pdq67]

What's wrong with a "real" Art Carr built 200 tranny b/c it can be built to that level and is a more convenient tranny to mess with.

But right, the 4L80 can be built probably to hold a lot more then the built 200 overall..

pdq67

[shanekennedy]

i read somewhere that a 4l85e required extensive floorpan modifications to fit 1st gen. i know that wasn't one of your options, but it something you might want to consider. i think the 4l60e is the same size as the 700r4 when has been proven to fit. never seen any 1st gens w/ 4l65e or 4l80e.

[Steve Chryssos]

I have a TCI 4L60e behind a 500HP small block. Works very well. No reliability problems whatsoever despite my best efforts to abuse it. Installation was an easy bolt in (replaced a TH350). No floorpan mods. Crossmember gets moved back and driveshaft gets shortened.

[MoeBawlz]

I would use the 4L60E and the motor i have now would probably be ok with it... ill be around 600hp on spray but im thinking about doing a blower instead and the next motor will be much crazier than this one so id rather have a tranny in there that i konw will handle the abuse when the time comes to do a new motor.

Ill give the guy with the 4l80E a call this week...

[73novaguy]

How much $ are we talking for good 4L60E's and 4L80E's? I hope this is not one of those "If you have to ask how much is cost, you can't afford it!" questions! hahahha

[protour_chevelle]

I paid 750-850US for my 4l80e with 20k on it. Stock form it'll be fine taking 800 flywheel ponies.

Its all in where you shop really. My friend just picked up a 11k 4l60e that was rebuilt with a shift kit for 950US

-Matt

[camcojb]

The 4L80E will fit the 67-69 Camaros without floor mods, but the cooling line area is very tight. I found one from BTE from Steve at Oldani Motorsports for $1865. There is no core charge and it will hold 850-900 HP. That does not include a converter and you'll also need a controller to control the trans.

Jody

[Lethal Injection]

Guys first post. I have been running a 700r4 in a 67 chevy ll for a couple of years with a mild 383 and nitrous. They just won't last with any power over 500 or so.

I am switching power adders to a turbo and going to a 4L80E trans. From what I have read they come from the factory rated at 800ftlb.. I like the odds of it lasting. I have an empty case test fitting. I just got my engine back so in a month or so I should have it in. I will be using a TCI controller.... which is a F.A.S.T. system like the fuel injection.

There are a couple ways to control it. One with a stand alone aftermarket controller. The other is to make it a manual valvebody. I also think that you can get a certain yr. camaro ecu to control it also..... but I am not positive.

The converters are more expensive which is a downer but so is rebuilding 700r4's or 4L60E's.

[Steve Chryssos]

Welcome to the forum Lethal. Did the 4L80 fit in your 67 Chevy II without floorpan mods? I have the TCI controller on my 4L60. Once you've had a computer controlled automatic you will never go back to a "dumb" transmission.

[zbugger]

One note for you guys. The 4L60-E and the 4L65-E are in essence the same transmission. The 4L65E is upgraded internally for more reliability and to handle some more power.

[myclone]

One note for you guys. The 4L60-E and the 4L65-E are in essence the same transmission. The 4L65E is upgraded internally for more reliability and to handle some more power.

Agreed.. For future reference heres a short list off the top of my head.

early/pre ~87 700R4=should be avoided like the plague.
late 87-92 700R4=non computer controlled (cept for TC lock up) 4spd OD trans.
4L60E=same trans but computer controlled as well as TV calbe control.
4L65E= ditto here but no TV cable and 100% puter controlled (correct me if Im wrong its early in the AM).

The list of trans's above have durability updates the newer the unit is and in most instances the newer hard parts will retro fit into the older units. Im running GM 5 gear planets for the 65E in my 91 700r4 right now after shattering the older 4 gear units...twice. Personally, I dont recommend the 700 to be used in anything that makes 425ish ftlbs of torque and can put that power to the ground. At around that level its not a matter of if it will break but when and the more torque you put through it the shorter its life gets. IMO the 700s internals just cant be made strong enough to reliably handle high HP for any length of time no matter WHO builds it or what kind of magic dust is sprinkled on it (yes, Ive spoken to the REAL Art Carr and he hates the 700 too).

The low first gear in a 700 makes even moderately powered vechicles "feel" like they are making 500hp but 2nd gear is a huge ratio jump so if you have a "peaky" power curve keeping the engine in the sweet spot is a PIA.

The plus side IMO of the 700 is that its now a fairly cheap unit and can be made to shift as hard as you want and freshen fairly cheaply by anyone that has some mechanical aptitude. Rebuilding the trans with new frictions every 5th or 6th pass down the 1/4 is not my idea of fun though so that point is moot IMO.

4L80E= 100% computer controlled HD 4spd OD trans that is basically the old reliable TH400 with OD added. The nice thing about this unit other than it being built like a tank is that a lot of the aftermarket TH400 upgrade parts easily retro fit into the 80E (sprag, diff ratio 1st gear sets, bands, etc). So its fairly easy to take the already durable 80E and upgrade the internals to reliabley handle ungodly amounts of power.

Two models of 80Es that Im aware of are available. One being the MT8 and the MD5 (someone correct me if I goofed on the GM designation) and the MD5 being the more durable of the two with less helical cut on the gear train (ala the "Rock Crusher" M22) and is used in the 1 ton dually trucks and motor home chassis. The other unit is essentially the same but the torque rating is less due to more helical cut gears but its quieter. My understanding is that all 1 ton duallys got the heavier unit if you go scrounging in the bone yards looking for one and I can attest to the fact my 454 gas 96 4dr dually having the HD unit from the gear whine in 1st gear.

The 80E will fit just about anywhere a TH400 will fit only its slightly longer so crossmember mods as well as drive shaft shortening will be an issue. The 80E uses the standard TH400 output shaft splines too so the front slip yoke on the drive shaft shouldnt be a problem.

The down sides of the 80E are few but after blowing up ~$5k worth of 700s myself the 80E doesnt look so bad. The following are some things to keep in mind IMO before jumping on the 80E bus:

Controller cost,
The units needed to run the 80E as an automatic are pricey at ~1200 bucks for the cheaper unit with display but having finger tip adjustment of shift timing and quality make it nice to those of us used to crawling under the vehicle, swapping governors/springs/valve body parts and getting trans fluid all over the place (and all over me) doing so. With the controllers available you can change all the above from the drivers seat while drinking a big gulp. For the knuckle dragging crowd (like myself) you can ditch the control module all togeather but then the 80E becomes a "race" piece and must be manually upshifted and down shifted at all times like a drag race oriented "full manual valve body". Some ppl are willing to live with that while others will tire of it VERY quickly and want a sane shifting trans at light throttle/cruise.

Right now performance torque converters are pretty pricey and expect to spend around a grand or more for a quality piece. This isnt a huge issue to some (although its still painfull on the wallet IMO) since a quality full race 700 TC will be that expensive. The billet unit Im running in my 700 now from TCS is 900 bucks (yes, its a true "billet" housing not just the name billet hung on a shiney part) so whats a couple hundred more since its only money (thats a joke BTW).

The 80E is a HEAVY unit... A fellow syclone guy weighed an 80E with TC and if memory serves me correct the 80E was ~80lbs heavier than the 700. To me just the TC on an 80E is as heavy as a complete 700 minus TC but then again I might just be getting old and feeble :shrug: .

Avoid the 94 and earlier 80Es as the shift selonoid exhaust holes were prone to clogging and when they did the pressure had no where to go at shifts so a thin part of the passaged in the aluminum case under the valve body would blow out. Instant junk trans case if that happened so look for 95 and up units in the bone yard unless you want to update an older unit with the redesigned shift seloniods.

To sum it up a well built 700 in a moderately powered street car that sees mostly cruising with an occassional WOT blast will last a long time but start adding power or beating it regularly and its life will be shortened at a rapid rate. Its life is shortened even quicker with big HP and/or insane driving. The 80E on the other hand will take just about anything you can throw at it as long as you feed it a steady diet of cool clean fluid and it will give you many years of driving fun. Go to any local drag strip and and find some high HP cars that arent running a power glide and look at the trans they run season after season without touching it...yep, a TH400 so that should give you an idea of the durability of an 80E.

Sorry to hijack the thread but I wanted to put some info out there from someone whos BTDT with the 700 to possibly save someone else a future wallet draining headache.

[Lethal Injection]

Welcome to the forum Lethal. Did the 4L80 fit in your 67 Chevy II without floorpan mods? I have the TCI controller on my 4L60. Once you've had a computer controlled automatic you will never go back to a "dumb" transmission.

I have a empty case I am using now. I just got my engine back from the builder and will put the case on and know for sure. I will do some work on the tunnel. I just have not decided if I will cut the tunnel out and make a new one or just try to modify some areas.

The tunnel in the chevyll is small around the tail housing and will surely get work. I will curt off the extra leg of the trans and work on the "rib" on top if I just modify my tunnel instead of replace.

I am using the F.A.S.T. controller for my injection so I was happy to see the tci unit.

[camcojb]

I'm using the Big Stuff 3 EFI for mine and it has a built-in trans controller, which eliminates one extra box. Can't wait to try it.

Jody

[69Rathead]

Myclone...Excellent post! I think I'll just stick with my old TH400!

[Novacane]

The 4L80E will handle upward of 1000 ft.lbs of torque if prepared properly. I decided mid way to ditch the T56 for one to go behind the 427TT going in my project. It's the way to go when running big boost. the 4L80E is the new generation Turbo400! Expect to pay $1800-2000 for a bullet proof unit. The converer will run another $750-900.00 Then buy Steves paddle shifter!!!!

Steve....they ready yet??

Howard