ALIGNMENT SPECS FOR 2nd gen

[molyorange 77]

I am ready to get my front suspension adjusted for road use, but I want a performance alignment for occasional curvy country road blasts, what do you 2nd gen guys have for specs. It is a 77 and it has been lowered with Hotchkis front and rear but the front coils have been cut one full round. the top of the front wheel well is 25" from the ground the back is around 26" I do have a competent front end shop that can handle the task.

[Marcus SC&C]

For a street car I`d shoot for -1/2* camber, +5* to +5.5* caster and 1/16" total toe in. If it`s an occasional use car and you really like the twisties you could go to -1* camber and 0 toe. Any more than that and tire wear may becoem an issue. Mark SC&C

[MonzaRacer]

Ok, I differ a little as the 77s will eat tires with that little camber even with aftermarket A arms and such(did you get them)
I have 2 or 3 1976/1977 Camaros out and the spec for them is 1 degree positive plus or minus 1 degree.
After seeing what they did when we got real aggresive with the camber my professional opinion would be as below, now if you are going to autocross a lot , and really beat on it use Marks specs.
But for just fun driving try these and then "read" the tires after 10k miles or so.
Stock specs:
Camber 1 deg. plus or minus 1 degree
Caster 1 deg. plus or minus 3/4 deg.
Toe 1/16th" plus or minus 1/8 "
Toe in deg. 1/8 deg plus or minus 1/4

My specs:
Camber - 1/4 deg plus or minus 1/4 deg
Caster right +3.5 to +5.5 deg, left +3 to +5 deg dont forget to ask for the .5 degree split higher on the right side to allow for road crown (dont do it if its a race only car)
Toe use stock specs above.
Without offset upper control arm shafts ( made to help cars with frame sag to gain more/less camber) I doubt the car will get to 5 degrees positive without large shim packs but only the tech and machine will tell.
Not trying to usurp Mark but on the stree, unless it has a lot of extra handling parts and isnt driven on track that much a 1/2 degree is gonna eat the insides of the tires badly from my experience.
Also you can have your front end guy figure out how much another 1/4 degree of change is (say like 2 ,1/8 shims or 1 ea 1/8, 1/16 shims) and he can actually tell you how much it will change your toe too so you can reset it.
I actaully have had 2 guys who made threaded toe bars that touched the inside lip of the wheels and they rest thier total regularly, as we found that on track most Fbody cars will turn in with a slight amout of toe out but on the street it eats tires like a wood chuck through a tree.

Good Luck
Lee

[Marcus SC&C]

That`s odd,I`ve had 8 of those cars myself ranging from a `70 1/2 RAIII Formula to various Camaros and a few`78 TransAms and worked on and aligned many more. I`ve never seen any tire wear issues at all with -1/2* or less camber (on those or any car really). In fact on many cars that are regularly flogged the outter edge will still wear a bit more at -1/2*. That`s even the case on our Stage 2 G body with has more aggressive - camber gain than a stock 2nd gen. Even so we`ve got almost 35,000 miles on this set of tires. Not arguing at all,just stating my own observations.
You`re absolutely right about it being tough to get the specs I recomended with stock arms and shafts. He may end up at your specs by default anyway. Naturally the best solution would be a set of out adj. arms,then you can set the alignment any way you like. ;) It`s also why I recomend our package with tall ball joints. Based on GM`s 1970 recomended geometry mods to run SCCA TransAm it makes the camber curves more aggressive and lets you get better performance with milder static alignment specs. A rare have your cake and eat it too kinda thing. Mark SC&C

[Skip Fix]

I like around 1 degree of neg camber especially if you corner alot. I have found even with longer bolts it is really hard to get more tha 3+ caster with much negative camber.

[molyorange 77]

Ok I have stock control arms, so which one would be best for the street with what I have. I like to drive on twisty roads and HWY use every now and then but mostly twisty roads.

[David Pozzi]

Molyorange 77,
My opinion is, get tubular upper arms and increase the caster, it's one of the best mods you can do.
We use 1 deg neg camber and had even tire wear, BUT the car was Autocrossed and open tracked almost exclusively. Probably only 1000 miles of street driving but that was on other tires.
David

[Skip Fix]

Since I hit turns hard on the street tire wear with 1 degree was fine. Shoot still got the same specs in it while drag racing.

[73ta]

If your looking for good handling on the street, most great tires won't last much longet than 15-20K miles anyway. My BMW wears the inside of the tires more rapidly if just street driven. You must compensate for this wear and the good handling with aggressive driving techniques that will balance out the wear and make them wear even! I'll be setting up my TA to do the same!

[MonzaRacer]

If I had my druthers hook up with Mark and SC&C and get arms from him then you can probably get as aggressive as he says. I am not sure why we always had the tire wear problems but thats why I recommended what I did.
The big trick is to make sure everything is fresh (bushings and such) and I would even make sure the subrame is perfect, as thats where we may have had our problems (not knowing if they had been wrecked or sagging more than normal).
I would beg for more caster on F bodies.
I have seen problems when the shimpacks get too big so watch that.
Anotherthing is never use old shims as the rust will crush and becomes slick like graphite under duress.
I even have taken to welding a large portion of the pack together just leave enough to fine tune the specs. I set them in a vise and tack them together (if you have big packs), you wont if you get Mark to make up a set of arms.
Good luck

[molyorange 77]

Thanks for the input and suggestions, I will see how far we can take it. Robert

[sasquatch]

It`s also why I recomend our package with tall ball joints. Based on GM`s 1970 recomended geometry mods to run SCCA TransAm it makes the camber curves more aggressive and lets you get better performance with milder static alignment specs. A rare have your cake and eat it too kinda thing. Mark SC&C

would the howie tall ball joints (Upper, lower or both?) do the same with the global west tubeular control arms? thanks

[TLWiltman]

would the howe tall ball joints (Upper, lower or both?) do the same with the global west tubeular control arms? thanks

My thought on this is that the tall ball joints would be a great idea with the GW setup as well. Benefits are... Increased negative camber gain (by effectively making the spindle taller), Reduced roll center movement in cornering, And a tall LBJ will lower the car just a touch (think dropped spindle, but to a lesser degree)

[dan10101]

For a street car I`d shoot for -1/2* camber, +5* to +5.5* caster and 1/16" total toe in. If it`s an occasional use car and you really like the twisties you could go to -1* camber and 0 toe. Any more than that and tire wear may becoem an issue. Mark SC&C

Camber 0 to -1/2
I tend to agree with Mark on this one. I spent 10+ years under an alignment rack. Anything more than +3/4* will wear the outside edges.

Notice we're talking + and - here.

Ya, I'm new. But old too..
Dan

[protour73]

Reviving a long time quieted thread..........
finished a 2 year build on my car and it's time to start tweaking it for the road.

1973 Camaro
Hotchkis Suspension front and rear
Global West Upper and Lower Control arms with supplied ball joints
Baer Tracker adjustable Tierod Ends

trying to make sense of all the opinions given in this thread. Majority of the driving would be weekends on the road.....MAYBE an occasional track day or AutoX. I am attending to the Motor State Challenge in June.........so there's at least one serious track day.....but again, I need mostly good road manners with the car.

any more info needed, let me know.....and in advance....THANKS

[TBART70]

Just finished installing the SPC uppers and tall lowers on a 72 Chevelle from Marcus yesterday. I set the camber to -.6 on both sides and caster was 5.1 for drivers side and 5.5 for passenger side. Toe was 1/16 in. total. Car drive nice, needs better tires than 15". The only thing about the control arms is that they are hard to adjust because there are no flats on the tubes to grab, other than that they are real nice.

[protour73]

average what's been posted?

and BUMP

[BonzoHansen]

Scotty, I woud have typed up my answer but mine is basically what Marcus said, but I'm running closer to 6* caster.

For a street car I`d shoot for -1/2* camber, +5* to +5.5* caster and 1/16" total toe in. If it`s an occasional use car and you really like the twisties you could go to -1* camber and 0 toe. Any more than that and tire wear may becoem an issue. Mark SC&C

[protour73]

what control arms do you have, Scott?

[BonzoHansen]

SPCs I got from SC&C.