Would You Use E85?

[71dusterdan]

monza are you reading my mind, i want to inject the 400 truck engine for sure, but i am not really sold on the flexifuel gig. if i never saw pump premium again i would survive(mentally) great idea i just do not want to compromise to run gas, although it does certainly have its merits. let me know who it goes i do want to inject everything. thanks,Dan

[Dave96dcm]

Baiscally if you want to try and get similar fuel milage and output then they way to go would be boosted, run a low boost with pump gas and with E-85 you can up the boost (change blower pullies or wastegate settings) and get a simmilar efficency, but if you want a n/a car then it is better to build for one of the other. Unless you are building a weekend race car, road race or drag race it makes more sence to use a higher octane fuel and if you build a engine to run on 105 octane fuel would you rather pay $5 a gallon of $2 something a gallon. It is that simple. Once the demand goes up the efficency of the plants producing the E-85 will go up, think about how inefficent the first gasoline plants must have been.

[MonzaRacer]

Well the Flex Fuel cars work I found a customer at my new job who uses E85 as she owns a Taurus and her daughter has a Malibu/Impalla thats flex fuel and she told me that in lighter cars her mileage difference is roughly 10 to 15 percent in around town driving and a little under 10 percent in cruise. She told me that she hasnt been hurt finacialy yet running it and seems to get better mileage on gas after running the E85 as it keeps the induction system clean.
She told me that she was told horror stories on the fact the systems would have corrosion problems and starting problems and all types of such crap and so far all she sees is that her and her daughter aredoing something to help the environment.
Her daughters ex boyfriend was trying to run it in his truck (non E85 setup) and trashed it and blamed her.
This lady was curious why I asked about it and so I told her and I just had a phone call from her daughter (who it turns out is into cars) wants to meet me.
And from the pics , oh boy she is cute and smart and single,,,,, so I hope to be able to hook my scanner up to her car soon too to get some readings from the sensors.
My big hold up is that sourcing the sensors is hard.
As for being flex fule it simply will have a sensor in the fuel line to measurethe alcohol content in the fuel and it adjusts the injectors and ignition to match the requirements of the fuel being used.
Basicly it would give you a choice and if you took a long drive you may have to "settle" for premium but be able to fill up later in the trip after finding E85 again.
The big telling point would be using colder plugs with gas and that E85 cleans the fuel system very well.
Is it a perfect fix no, but untill we can buy a Hydrogen cell/fuel mixer and use it in our cars then we do hae to use what we are given and I really dont believe companies would spend billions setting up Ethanol processing plants all over the US if it wasnt being given its due regard. As for E85 making to EVERY town in the use but even if the infrastructure only covers 75 percent of the country then the ones of us near it should give it a try.
I have a lot of time involved in setting up parts and working on any software needs in my kit idea.
I have talked to 3 different gas tank manufacturers and only one has given me song and dance about having to a the tanks and the other 2 said they simply use a process that isnt affected by it as they found it (what they use for E85 OEM tanks) to be a superior and simply implmented it into thier process of production. My big thing right now is in figuring out how to make sure the fuel piumps stay submerged in fuel to provide cooling. I am figuring if the one pump manufacturer comes back with a compact enough cartridge in a size we can fit trough most older tanks then we are in buisness with less trouble.
I am still hoping that we can make it feasible for a customer to source a new/used tank and send it to me for conversion as I think I have a better idea for pump/outlet positioning, but thats coming up for testing.
OH and so far the E85 engine has done great switching bcak and forth, but now the trick is getting the sensor installed and getting the software set up to work with it.
It going slowly but surely.
Oh and the engine is a 9.5 to 1 SBC with alumium heads and so far it runs on anything,,, heck my friend who is driving it even filled up with E85 and poured a quart of water in the tank and had little or no driving problems (he thought he was hearing spark knock but it was there after he checked tank and made sure it was clean and he was going to check timing too as he thought his distributor had moved.
Oh and on the car (which weighs in at 3456)he has noted a difference of mileage of 19.5 on E85 and 21.8 to 22.2 on gas and all he has done so far is use a laptop to reflash every time he changes fuel (and make sure he is very near empty) he has also adapted a Caddy fuel sensor module (the one that reads gallons instead of using a needle) so he has no more than a gallon at any one time.
He has another set of heads and hopes to up the compression after it warms up enough to get into his garage and do some more datalogging for me.
Later
Lee

[71dusterdan]

nice job Lee, i'm curious about the tank, 1st and then the rest later. as in the beginning i will be using a thermoquad carb, recalibrated for the e85. it seems as though my truck will be my guinea pig. Dan

[MonzaRacer]

Dan I would figure that simply installing a new tank would help a lot and i really am looking into working up a vapor setup so we can keep the system closed to moisture.
This is my big secondary worry but the small things will make my "kit" more universal in the long run I hope.
Lee

[Dave96dcm]

I would think that a 304 stainless tank would work fine and there are a few companies that make them for popular cars already.

[MonzaRacer]

Yeah for between $600 and $800 bucks. One company has a an elecroless nickle plating process they guarantee for 10 yrs, but I havent gotten the estimate yet.
From what one company told me that new tanks dont have problems its just old tanks that have problems from what I have been told. But I know several people using E85 and old tanks and not having any problems except it CLEANS the complete fuel system which sometimes makes leaks.

[LowBuckX]

I cant beleive electroless nickle will protect the tank. I used to work at a Hard chrome shop and we did lots of nickel for many products and it allows the base metal to rust fairly fast in the salt tank tests.

In nickel chrome plateing as in Brite chrome or bumper chrome The nickel provides the base and the chrome provides corrotion resistance, The actual chrome on a ornamental peice is so thin ist clear. The nickel provides the color and depth.

Unless he uses a differant nickel. We used brite ornamental grade and dull food grade.

[MonzaRacer]

From what I was told the nickel was similar to what is used on nickel plate firearms and was more to seal the interior surface and to harden the metal surface too.
I wasnt real privy to all of the reasons why but they told me the nickel was one of thier "tricks" to preserve the tank.
I will post back on it when I have more infor and actual prices etc.
Lee

[Damn True]

Cellulosic Ethanol Fail.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...n_AboveLEFTTop

We'd call this the march of folly, but that's unfair to fools.

If you paid a premium for one of these I'm sorry.

[bimmen325]

I do not support anything that can't stand on it's own, what you percieve as a low price is just a trick. Your tax dollars are used to keep the price low , to encourage use. Your paying for it, one way or another.

[Damn True]

...and you pay again in the case of corn, because by virtue of the diversion of the commodity to fuel (a wholly stupid premise to begin with) the cost of everything that uses corn goes up. Not just the obvious things either such as tortillas, corn flakes and corn meal but alkaline batteries, diapers and your Starbucks iced latte which is served in a cup made from corn.

Yes, batteries and diapers have corn in them.

[MonzaRacer]

...and you pay again in the case of corn, because by virtue of the diversion of the commodity to fuel (a wholly stupid premise to begin with) the cost of everything that uses corn goes up. Not just the obvious things either such as tortillas, corn flakes and corn meal but alkaline batteries, diapers and your Starbucks iced latte which is served in a cup made from corn.

Yes, batteries and diapers have corn in them.

OK so here we go again with food analogy again yet most people never know the truth in that corn derived ethanol(about 42% to 45% according to my research) DOES NOT USED HUMAN CONSUMED FOOD CORN.
Now that that tid bit is out does anyone on here EVER know what comes out of the back side of a distillery? Distillers dried grains (26% pure protein cattle feed) or wet cattle feed. and is used in feeding many types of live stock and it makes another industry in the shipping there of.
Now a lot of BS is going along for the ride on increasing prices of food produced with corn derivatives yet when the actual prices are adjusted for the devaluation of the dollar over the last 6 years the food prices are in steady relationship, increasing since 2008-2009 with specific economic issues helping.
Ethanol and E85 have not caused any significant shortages YET farmers wages and ability to make a better profit have gone up, only issue is that other costs like fertilizer, fuel and lubricants are going up faster,, hmmm too bad we arent drilling our own oil,,,,.
But the fact is there were several racing organizations asked to consider ethanol over methanol. Indy did change I believe, didnt they?
As for an alcohol class I would greatly appreciate NHRA and IHRA pushing for an actual E85 class, let it be spec fuel class with carbs in one class and FI in another, only issue is a test port to verify fuel used. I know one fella who developed an inline fuel content measuring device to verify the alcohol content of fuels and it employs both E85 and M85(methanol based) technology.
As anyone knows Methanol is SOOOOO corrosive compared to Ethanol.
Ethanol is easily contaminated by water but simply adding a set amount of E100 can help this dilution.
As for me I hope I can get my FI kit idea working.
Let be honest if your running an aluminum headed LS some of those can run 11 to 1 , 11.5 to one and never have an issue on Premium unleaded, so if a set up comes out that is cheaper, more easily tuned AND repaired and can run from E10 to E100 with no issue, who wouldnt buy it. rune your car on pump E10 (this is because MTBE the former oxygenate has been banned as it pollutes ground water) so the natural choice would me one that if the whole 10000 gallons spilled from a tanker what clean up is there, non it will dissipate/evaporate and all you have to do is keep it from lighting on fire,,,heck ethanol wont even poison a water supply, ever wonder where some small breweries used to dump waste/bad beer/liquors,, into local sewage and water ways as it poses little to no risks.
Now if we can have 105 octane fuel, and get it at a reasonable price and you can buy a system to run it easily as filling the tank would you?
I know I will.
too bad so many people have wrong information. See when the ethanol subsidies went into effect it was to help build infrastructure, distilleries, shipping pipe line similar to gas, distribution system after production. They were never meant to be forever till democratic control extended them indefinitely for the most part. Also what was not shown in news were the conservatives who back renewable sources of fuel and such wanted toadd in legislation to slowly reduce the systems dependence on subsidies.
Big thing that hurt the ethanol issue was when the replacement mandate started Katrina damaged so much of the fuel industry's ability to MEET EPA rules as the ability to produce ethanol, blend it into car fuel and get it to stations was diminished and caused major price issues as fuel supplies were stretched. Much of ethanol production comes from waste foods, left overs from sugar production and such, yet you never hear about it. all you hear about are corn prices and all the other blather as you never see the true facts.
Will I use E85, sure as long as local station has it and I can get reliable fuel from it ie not contaminated.
Will it be my first and only line of fuel for my cars, no, I will attempt to make my car adaptable to using both E10 and E85.
Also will most likely have a methanol/water injection system and inter cooling on my cars to help with tuning issues and I also am looking at using wide band for tuning AND may even try to build my own roller loading system down the road.

[Damn True]

OK so here we go again with food analogy again yet most people never know the truth in that corn derived ethanol(about 42% to 45% according to my research) DOES NOT USED HUMAN CONSUMED FOOD CORN.

Grossly oversimplified and misleading statement. There is a relatively static number of acres that are used for growing "corn". Over the last 10+ years that acreage inventory has moved to growing 25% of it's total yield to corn for "uses other than food" - mainly ethanol production. (CBO statistics) That number is expected to reach as much as 30% (Yale University) within the next year and some estimates say 50% (Iowa St) within the next 5yrs depending on who's estimates of our collective stupidity you believe.

Cite "your research" (I can) because the US Congressional Budget office, the US Department of Agriculture, The US Department of Energy, the United Nations, Yale University and Iowa State University all disagree with the points you continue to espouse.

Now a lot of BS is going along for the ride on increasing prices of food produced with corn derivatives yet when the actual prices are adjusted for the devaluation of the dollar over the last 6 years the food prices are in steady relationship, increasing since 2008-2009 with specific economic issues helping.

Wrong. The increased use of ethanol accounted for about 10 percent to 15 percent of the rise in food prices. (CBO & United Nations)

From 2005 to January 2008, the global price of wheat increased 143 percent, corn by 105 percent, rice by 154 percent, sugar by 118 percent, and oilseeds by 197 percent. In 2006-2007, this rate of increase accelerated, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, “due to continued demand for biofuels and drought in major producing countries.” The price increases have since moderated, but many believe only temporarily, given tight stocks-to-use ratios. (Yale University)

Ethanol and E85 have not caused any significant shortages YET farmers wages and ability to make a better profit have gone up, only issue is that other costs like fertilizer, fuel and lubricants are going up faster.

Wrong again. Subsides and tariffs artificially drive up the price of grain making it a less affordable commodity for many with 25-30% of "food corn" being lost to the production of "field corn". Finally, since the subsidies are my money, those profits are simply theft. Not money fairly earned for a non-manipulated commodity price.

• 45 cent-per-gallon “blender’s tax credit” for ethanol
• $1 credit for plant-based biodiesel and “cellulosic” ethanol
• $2.8 Billion per year in traditional "direct payment" corn subsidies or 35% of the $8.02 Billion in total farm subsidies.

(DOE, DOA)

From Mark Malloch Brown, former head of the UN Developing Nations Agriculture Program:

"It is the extraordinary distortion of global trade, where the West spends $360 billion a year on protecting its agriculture with a network of subsidies and tariffs that costs developing countries about US$50 billion in potential lost agricultural exports. Fifty billion dollars is the equivalent of today's level of development assistance."

So we spend in excess of $8 Billion a year on subsidies which then causes us to have to spend an additional exorbitant sum on foreign aid to countries who could be earning that money fairly....and again, that's my money being sent overseas. Likely to Nations who would wish us ill.

But the fact is there were several racing organizations asked to consider ethanol over methanol. Indy did change I believe, didnt they?

And eBay and Google have installed solar panels over their parking lots. The investment for which will never be recovered as the operating lifespan of the panels is longer than the ROI. It's a PR move. So is the use of bio-fuel in racing. Thus an irrelevant datapoint.

Much of ethanol production comes from waste foods, left overs from sugar production and such, yet you never hear about it. all you hear about are corn prices and all the other blather as you never see the true facts.

Still wrong.

And for cripes sake dude:

Use it once in a while.

[MonzaRacer]

So I take you dont like ethanol, its ability to be produced creating jobs and industry AND the fact that now hauling IN waster from sugar producing countries , waste that generally gets thrown out unprocessed , has become and industry in its self.
You spout "facts" from the UN which I would never trust to balance my check book. you also spout "fact " from CBO which we all know has been handed figures and made to post the "accuracy" thereof and how those can be made it look favorable.
Your talk of global grain prices really has limited scope as there are no side by side comparisons of crop failures through drought, pestilence, and other issues and again figures coming from one of the most dishonest entities (UN) on earth and one(CBO) that you HAVE to give specific rules and information to get them to figure anything and those numbers CAN and HAVE BEEN skewed many times to look good. or bad rather than honest.
6 cherry picked "facts" do not win an argument not prove ANYTHING except you can go pull one or two or three "reports" that "prove" your claims.
Now as for the entities that you pull facts from: US Congressional Budget office, the US Department of Agriculture, The US Department of Energy, the United Nations, Yale University and Iowa State University, lets see just how these shake out ,so to speak.
1CBO: same one that can pull up 17 different (if information I got was correct, but I do know of at least THREE) "reports" on how the Patient Protection act or Obamacare, would help healthcare, not impact economy or debt or deficit, etc. hmmm and we all know its a sham. CBO numbers are VERY suspect as the parameters of the statistics gathering are not present its simply a report that we paid lots of money for and I have grave doubts on its veracity.
2: 3US Dept. of Ag and US Dept of Energy, probably two of the most wasteful government entities (next to certain branches of government and the Department of Education) ever put into place,,,,oh and the Environmental Protection Agency
4 United Nations, the single most useless "agency" ever developed and funded by any country let alone ours.
5: 6Yale and Iowa State, ok might actually take something of theirs as a useful and factual report IF its not funded by any of the above "departments or entities" and NONE of the funding came from anything government or even started by people WANTING information pointed.
According to the site that I had found pertained to ethanol production and where the stocks to produce it came from.

now you going to come back and tell me I am wrong or what ever but first of all lets see where I will disagree and since I dont have the time to go re-look up information you could find if you took a trip into something other than tainted sources (CBO numbers can be fudged, for lack of a better term to come to mind, saw a lot of that with Obamacare) (UN numbers well that place if ants tore it down and threw all the pieces of that corrupt place and its members into the ocean I would not care)(and those government agencies, well lets save more than anything by closing them and starting with something better or just not have them all together).
Now as for subsidies those were supposed to gradually die, they didnt the Democrat controlled government revived them and took out the gradual scale down.
Corn production and other grain production acreage have actually went up were many farmers were either leaving them untilled or as pasture land or as non production.
also one of the most wasteful things still out there is the Land Bank, still in effect since late 70s when Carter had farmer set aside land and get paid for it so as to not have surpluses as we were not selling to Russia and other countries so grain was rotting in silos.
Another little fact is that the EPA had a big hand in ethanol production( as the "findings" are not suspect as they were from independent sources and "verified" by them)in that an oxygenate MTBE which is a pollutant and found in ground water and they mandated the removal, but instead of rescinding the the rule to USE them they had to look for a replacement, cheapest and least corrosive, poisonous etc ,,,,ethanol.
So we also have that.
As for cellulosic ethanol, the technology isnt there and so far most of the big producers went bust, and others are still in the development phase,,,be a good idea if it ever gets perfected.
As for farming making more money, it has always been a fine edge on live or die in that respect and honestly I see many farms go away, and land re purposed, BUT I have also seen areas where the farmers are clearing MORE land and production is going up.
As my family is involved in farming I see many things, also as I live near one of the processing plants that make ethanol and other corn based products(HFCS, corn oil, DDG and wet cattle feed) I see many things that the move has done good. I also have not seen a dramatic rise in food prices OVER the devaluing of the dollar ie inflation. Regardless of suspect information.
I also have a hobby that can use ethanol so I like ethanol, I hope to USE it and benefit from its appearance as it WAS coming regardless of my sources or yours or any "facts or figures" these supposedly honest and ethical entities can produce (again out of your sources I trust exactly 2 and only IF I can see parameters set forth to collect theses so called facts and figures). and yes I will do some more research to locate older information I have read.
As for me, yes I would vote for using Ethanol use, intend to use it and honestly my family benefits so I am happier.
As for solar power, it depends on WHAT its used for. A family just down the road from me has installed both solar panels and solar water heating and their power consumption from old house to "new" house is about 60% less. Oh and reason he knows its a good decrease as the new house is identical to old house except when tornado took old house and damaged it he rebuilt from same blue prints, and while he did used a few newer products to help he has seen dramatic decrease and so far his increase in maintenance has been his kids get the fun of cleaning the panels once a week or every other week, bu then they get a good allowance,, I know as I am building the son a car "on paper" and he is saving for it and buying parts as we speak. his daughter has a horse and uses her funds to maintain him. But as he is getting older and less able to race(yep race horse, not sure what kind but they race him) she talks about moving him to her grandfathers and breeding him instead. Andshe is talking of building a car also.
The technology out in the world is incredible, the efficient use of what is in our face is up to us.
So you can spout numbers all day, some of which I disagree with, some I'll have to check up on.

Remember what you do with information is as important as a point you try to make with it.
IF I could save 60 percent on my electricity ( let me see who will figure this,,, oh yeah ME) Average of $135 a month x 12=$1620 x .40=$648.
DAMN I just paid for my brakes on one car in a year. IF I matched Dericks system it would cost me $6489 (as of todays price, I did check) so if I bought brakes AND did the solar assist and solar panels he has and related wiring and such it would take 6.6 yrs to pay off. And if I didnt count on buying $2000 in brakes 4 years, solar panels are repairable in sections and can recycle "cells" as needed to maintain efficiency cost of up keep so far has been ,for Derick, about $100 a year, thats replacing lexan panels and he has since started doing his own. His electric panel has only lost 7% efficiency in 2.5 years so he is ahead of curve as he was told he would need to replace/rebuild in 10 yrs but so far he figures on getting much more from them.
So bash away at me all you want, so far I see nothing that would stop me from using and enjoying my ethanol and ethanol powered cars, so I like it.
Oh and as for the enter thing, while I may write things one way so far this site has caused some issues in the way my posts come out. guess I need to look into that.
And I never have claimed to be perfect.

[Damn True]

Argumentum ad hominem and straw men do not constitute a compelling rebuttal.

Do you not see the paradox in your disparagement of the role of Government in terms of provision of data and funding studies and that of the UN in pointing out the folly of subsidization of agriculture yet in the same breath tout the glorious benefit of u̶n̶i̶c̶o̶r̶n̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶r̶s̶ ethanol as a fuel source? A fuel source which would not exist without rampant corruption of our Government by the agribusiness lobby that drives exorbitant subsidies, imposes punitive regulation and tariffs on competing technologies and increases the cost of goods of anything remotely connected to the commodity in question. Without governmental intervention corn based ethanol as a fuel source would not exist. There are innumerable reasons for that.

I don't as you said, "dislike ethanol". It's particularly pleasant when mixed with other distilled grains and left in an oak cask for about 21 years. I do however dislike having the money I earn stolen from me and given to someone who didn't earn it in the form of a subsidy. I dislike having my Government use said money to pick winners and losers in industry. I dislike tariffs and commodity price controls that result in further need for my money to be redistributed to other countries in the form of foreign aid that would be unnecessary without said tariffs and price controls. I dislike commodity price controls that stifle my ability to profit from speculatively investing in said commodity. I dislike having to spend more of my money than I should to buy damn near anything because corruption and socialistic thinking has driven the legislative fiat to foist on our economy an absurdly wasteful, inefficient and wholly unnecessary "technology".

[MonzaRacer]

Some new information people may want to read to get better picture of falsehoods perpetuated by others.




E85 ETHANOL MYTHS

1. E85 Ethanol is corrosive

Yes ethanol is corrosive, but not very much. Gasoline is corrosive too. Ethanol is biodegradable in water. So it has a tendency to contain and attract water. It is not the corrosive properties of ethanol that can cause damage to your vehicle; it is the water which can rust a vehicle’s fuel system from the inside out. Today’s vehicles (since mid 1980s) have fuel systems which are made to withstand corrosive motor fuels and rust from water. Also today’s distilling processes are superior to way back when. We now have better techniques for drying out ethanol or reducing the water content.

On side note, gas contains water too. Ever hear of dry gas?

2. If I put E85 in my gas tank, it will eat it away.

If your car was built in the old days, it was had a lead coated, steel tank. The water in ethanol would cause the tank to rust from the inside out. The government mandated that all gas in the USA contain 10% ethanol to help reduce tail pipe emissions. In the 1980s, automakers made vehicles with fuel systems to be ethanol and rust tolerant. Gas tanks began to contain polymers and Teflon which are extremely durable.

3. If I put E85 ethanol in my non-Flex Fuel vehicle, it will ruin it.

One tank won’t hurt. Some dealers are spreading rumors and charging $300-$3000 for one tank of accidental E85 use. This use may cause misfiring and a rough ride. Your check engine light will come on. If you should accidentally or on purpose put E85 in your vehicle, drain the tank, put in regular gas and all will be well. If you use E85 without a conversion kit or non-Flex Fuel capable vehicle for an extended period, you can damage your engine.

4. Ethanol will burn up my engine.

Ethanol has a lower ignition point than gas. Ethanol has about 115 octane and E85 has 105 octane. It burns cooler and will extend engine life by preventing the burning of engine valves and prevent the build-up of olefins in fuel injectors, keeping the fuel system cleaner.

5. Ethanol will ruin gaskets, seals, rings and more.

Running 100% ethanol or alcohol in an engine can cause damage to cork products.

The rubber neoprene used in the last 20 + years is resistant to the drying effect that ethanol may have.

Today's vehicles are built to withstand the corrosive effects of water in ethanol and gasoline. Any vehicle built since 1985 will have no ethanol related issues. Older vehicles that used more steel in the fuel systems or cork gaskets may have issues from long term exposure to water.

Vehicles in Brazil have been using ethanol for 30 years and they are completely free from using any foreign oil.

6. E85 will eat my rubber fuel lines.

This is another myth from the old days. Rubber technology has significantly advanced so the concerns of a 20 year old car or newer having issues like this are extremely rare. Plus the 15% gas will help keep lines lubricated.

7. E85 will destroy my fuel pump.

E85 won’t destroy your fuel pump. If you convert a high mileage vehicle to Flex Fuel, the E85 will cause the sediment in the gas tank to dissolve and then get sucked up by the fuel pump. It is believed that this sediment may shorten the life of the pump of your higher mileage vehicle (100,000+). We have had no reports from customers with damaged fuel pumps.

Video Proof: E85 does not harm engine, fuel lines, fuel pump, injectors, etc.

We do not recommend using E85 in your vehicle without an E85 conversion kit.

8. It takes more than a gallon of energy to make a gallon of E85.

This was true at one point in time. Today’s advanced technology and distilling processes actually create considerably more units of ethanol than units of energy used. The processes continue to advance and the ratio will continue to increase.

9. E85 Ethanol is worse for the environment than gas.

There have been some people who have published reports stating that E85 is worse than gas for the environment. They have yet to show any scientific proof or case studies that support their claims. Because E85 is cleaner than conventional gasoline, it emits less hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide and hydrogen. E85 reduces carbon monoxide emissions by as much as 70 percent — and less carbon monoxide helps reduce ozone formation and greenhouse gas levels. According to EPA, gasoline is the largest source of manmade carcinogens. Ethanol reduces overall toxic pollution by diluting harmful compounds found in gasoline such as benzene and other aromatics.

10. Using E85 ethanol will get 50% less mileage per tank.

There are some stories floating around about 50% reduction in mileage or twice as much ethanol is needed. Some of the automakers who introduced Flex vehicles did a terrible job with the fuel management systems that mileage did decrease as much as 50%. After some trial and error, the automakers have significantly improved their Flex systems and mileage conservation is within reasonable losses such as 5-15%. Conversion Kits like the Full Flex have been around for over 20 years. Realistic losses range from 5-15% as well.

11. Vehicles need more E85 ethanol so there is less power.

It is true that a vehicle does require more E85 than regular gas since the amount of energy per unit of ethanol is less than that of gas. Ethanol has a lower ignition temperature so the engine overall will run cooler increasing power. It also burns slower so instead of just burning out in one violent explosion forcing the piston down, it continues to burn the entire length of the piston stroke expanding gases more evenly and smoothly. So running E85 will give any engine more power over any pump gas. Also E85 is 105 octane. Gas comes in 85, 89 and 91 octane. The 105 octane of E85 will help to eliminate knocks and pings. All of these benefits will make an engine run smoother and quieter.

12. Won't E85 production deplete human and animal food supplies?

No, actually the production of ethanol from corn uses only the starch of the corn kernel, all of the valuable protein, minerals and nutrients remain. One bushel of corn produces about 2.7 gallons of ethanol AND 11.4 pounds of gluten feed (20% protein) AND 3 pounds of gluten meal (60% protein) AND 1.6 pounds of corn oil.

13. Ethanol does not benefit farmers.

The ethanol industry opens a new market for corn growers, allowing them to enjoy greater profitability. Studies have shown that corn prices in areas near ethanol plants tend to be 5 to 10 cents per bushel higher than in other areas. This additional income helps cut the costs of farm programs and add vitality to rural economies. The additional profit potential for farmers created by ethanol production allows more farmers to stay in business — helping ensure adequate food supplies in the future. Ethanol production also creates jobs, many of which are in rural communities where good jobs are hard to come by. A 2005 study by LECG found the ethanol industry powered the U.S. economy by creating more than 147,000 jobs, boosting U.S. household income by $4.4 billion and reducing the U.S. trade deficit by $5.1 billion by eliminating the need to import 143.3 million barrels of oil. Those kinds of numbers help farmers and all Americans.

14. Ethanol production wastes corn that could be used to feed a hungry world.

Corn used for ethanol production is field corn typically used to feed livestock. Wet mill ethanol production facilities, also known as corn refineries, also produce starch, corn sweeteners, and corn oil — all products that are used as food ingredients for human consumption. Ethanol production also results in the production of distiller’s grains and gluten feed — both of which are fed to livestock, helping produce high-quality meat products for distribution domestically and abroad. There is no shortage of corn. In 2004, U.S. farmers produced a record 11.8 billion bushel corn harvest — and some 1.3 billion bushels (about 11 percent) were used in ethanol production. Additionally, the 2005 crop was among the largest on record. 2007 will yield the largest corn crop since the 1940s. In other words, there is still room to significantly grow the ethanol market without limiting the availability of corn. Steadily increasing corn yields and the improved ability of other nations to grow corn also make it clear that ethanol production can continue to grow without affecting the food supply.