Would You Use E85?

[CSI:QUINCY]

Would You Use E 85 In Your Ride?

[4birdman]

I'd use it in both my Trans Ams if I didn't have to drive 20 minutes to get to the closest station!

[BADVELLE]

Would You Use E 85 In Your Ride?

It depends on why you are asking, i.e., performance, fuel mileage, tree hugging, etc. The ONLY benefit to E85 is that we (US) is relying on the Midwest corn market, instead of the Arab nations for petro. Why would I want to specifically run it in my hot rod?

[MonzaRacer]

Heck yes i am even developing the parts to aetup my own FlexFI set up and hopefully it wont be too expensive as I like the beneifits of E85.
build a 11 to 1 aluminum head small block run it with adapted technology. And push the edge. I ran my big block on the street and its still together waiting on a different car body but I ran a BBC with 10.5 pistons ,milled heads(iron), zero deck block. it ran like stink and never broke on me except when the HPX head bolts were shipped with the wrong torque specs. A couple of cheap cams cost me some time. My next choice is a Chet Herbert roller. Just gotta get some good lifters and in it goes back in.
This engien would be awesome with 105 octane. I hope I can get my FI setup going the bigest problem has been sourcing the flex sensor. Doing the Flex with software takes a LOT of RAM.
Now on a carb you have the problem of being the only fuel it can run. A sort of fix is if someone could make the jetting adjustable but that is not a good fix.
The big ticket item is having a wide band O2 and controler and a lap top so you can read the exhaust and dial the fuel and spark curve.
the tuner needs to remember that E85 alos wants colder plugs too and you gotta stay on top of the tune and fuel or you can and will trash the engine.
Alcohol has a narrower tuning band for the fuel. Its easy to deal with and the cooler running makes it a less able do damage as quick.
The big trick is to start rich and lean it back down, rather than lean it down and rich it up as in tuning with gas.
Another big tuning aid would be a knock sensor so as to not detonate the engine apart. BUT we have all tuned engines ,with E85 you just have to be on your game.
I know Quick Fuel and Edelbrock are developing E85 carbs and I figure someone at BG is doing the same for the Demon line. But if BG does I hope they get the QC better as I have had several that were just plain garbge out of the box. The big problem is they are not getting the machine shavings cleaned out.
Any way tuning is the key.
Thats why i am protyping my FlexFI so as to have an aftermarket bolt on FI set up.
Lee Abel

[MonzaRacer]

The good reasons to run E85.
1: Renewable fuel source and if you know a farmer your paying him.
2: Cleaner burning allowing you to be ignored by EPA even though most hot rods are not in the cross hairs for the most part.
3: 105 Octane. 'nuff said!
4: I like the dare to be different theme and this is different.
5: My whole premise in hot rods was/is to do more with less ,adapt what I can use and discard old ,bad ideas.
can you tell me you want to sticjk with an external 37 amp alternator, no you dont, do you want to stick with points, no. We adapt SI and CSI alternators, we now have mini starters that are factory parts ,no off hand aftermarket small starters (which I personaly had problems with when I used them), we used to use blower motors to run water pumps, adapt electric fans from stockers, tweak HEI to comeptition level grade ingnition, over drive trans now considered standard operating parts.
Heck this is just another tool in our belt to make awesome cars AND be clean and mean for the environment.
would I give up 25 to 30 percent in fuel economy to gain a 20 percent increase in power production capability. I do believe that if you make an efficient engine that makes more power then its gonna be more economical.
My honest opinion is that if you can get in tune then the benifits out weigh the bad marks of which I can only find 2 that loom in my face, fuel availablility and the decrese in fuel economy. But with judicious tuning you are going to make better power for lass money than race fuel and be leagal to run even in a cat equipt late model car.
Lee

[CSI:QUINCY]

The good reasons to run E85.
1: Renewable fuel source and if you know a farmer your paying him.
2: Cleaner burning allowing you to be ignored by EPA even though most hot rods are not in the cross hairs for the most part.
3: 105 Octane. 'nuff said!
4: I like the dare to be different theme and this is different.
5: My whole premise in hot rods was/is to do more with less ,adapt what I can use and discard old ,bad ideas.
can you tell me you want to sticjk with an external 37 amp alternator, no you dont, do you want to stick with points, no. We adapt SI and CSI alternators, we now have mini starters that are factory parts ,no off hand aftermarket small starters (which I personaly had problems with when I used them), we used to use blower motors to run water pumps, adapt electric fans from stockers, tweak HEI to comeptition level grade ingnition, over drive trans now considered standard operating parts.
Heck this is just another tool in our belt to make awesome cars AND be clean and mean for the environment.
would I give up 25 to 30 percent in fuel economy to gain a 20 percent increase in power production capability. I do believe that if you make an efficient engine that makes more power then its gonna be more economical.
My honest opinion is that if you can get in tune then the benifits out weigh the bad marks of which I can only find 2 that loom in my face, fuel availablility and the decrese in fuel economy. But with judicious tuning you are going to make better power for lass money than race fuel and be leagal to run even in a cat equipt late model car.
Lee

coundn't have said it better (monzaracer) I am running e85 in my 235" dragster running 14/1 compresion. and buy this a the gas station for under $2.00 A GALLON WHEN RACING FUEL IS OVER $5.00 PER GALLON TO GET ENOUGH OCTAN TO RUNNING THAT MUCH COMPRESSION.

TRY USING THE LINK IN MY SIGNITURE TO FIND E85 CLOSE TO YOU.

[ProTouring442]

Some of the problems with E85 are:

For every 1.3 gallons of ethanol produced, 1 gallon of standard oil-based fuel is consumed.

Ethanol readily absorbs water. According to an article in the Boat US publication, "...it absorbs water, and will mix more easily with water than with gasoline. Up to 10% (in E-10) of your fuel could become a water-ethanol mix, and the liquid may undergo 'phase seperation,' forming a top layer of pure low-octane gas and a bottom layer of water-saturated ethanol." Based on the fact that this was written about E-10, I am guessing that the water-ethanol mix in E-85 could be as high as 85% of the fuel in your tank.

Other problems on our older and home-built cars might be compatability issues with O-rings, fuel sending units, fuel pumps, and other gaskets and seals.

I know that several motorcycle publications have commented on the water issues, as motorcycles are frequently stored for long periods. Our cars are frequently subjected to the same sort of longer term storage, usually in cool garages. These are exactly the sort of places where water contamination is most likely.

Just a few thoughts. If anyone knows of ways around them, please let me know as I think we will see more and more of these sorts of fuels around. Especaily if the experiments with carbon-dioxide scrubbing I saw on the Discovery Channel work out in the long run. There is a power plant where they run the CO2 through large water/algea filled tubes. The algea use the CO2, and produce oxygen. The resulting algea growth is siphoned off to be used as fuel, or converted to ethanol. the natural oils from the algea can be used as, well, oil.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"
www.FQuick.com/ProTouring442

[MarkM66]

I like the idea but no.

Not enough gas stations to support it. And once the government stops subsidising it's cost, it's going to be way to expensive.

[Steve1968LS2]

E85 is NOT all it's cracked up to be. It's a great way to lessen the use of oil, but all cars will never be able to switch over to it. Why?

Think of how much agriculture would have to be devoted to growing fuel for E85. For all, or even most, of the cars to run E85 I heard most of the farmland would have to be used.

I already read a piece where it has effected the cost of corn in Mexico and that increase is hurting the poor there (cost of corn goes up, cost of tortillas goes up and that's the basic foodstuff for the poor).

E85 is a short term bandaid. Besides, there's only ONE E85 gas station in all of California (last time I checked).

[MarkM66]

I already read a piece where it has effected the cost of corn in Mexico and that increase is hurting the poor there (cost of corn goes up, cost of tortillas goes up and that's the basic foodstuff for the poor).

I heard that too. The price of a bushel is at an all time high due to Ethanol productions, thus making the cost of all other corn made products increase.

http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/18173/

[MuscleRodz]

The bad:

E85 will absorb water as mentioned above which can cause corrosion in aluminum and rust in steel parts over time and requires different seals. All flex fuel vehicles have stainless fuel lines and plastic fuel tanks to combat this. The FAA won't let the avaition industry use any auto gas with ethanol in it due to its corrosive nature in the aluminum fuel systems and seals.

Mike

[Steve1968LS2]

People forget that every technology adhears to "the law of unintended consequences".

[DriverzInc]

Ethanol will never be widely adopted for one simple reason, money. Washington will never allow it.

I hear all this talk about corn. I read in several studies that corn is the LEAST ethanol yielding crop? If you want to produce high amounts of ethanol, sugar cane, or other (wheats?) is the way to go. Obviously, you all know, Brazil has been doing this for over a decade. If our government would get there heads out of their asses, and the oil company's hands out of their pocket books, ethanol would be made more readily available, and not just in it's bandaid mixture form of E85. That was the way it was explained to me. Set me straight if anyone else knows different. So yes, I would use it in my car. I also thought I read that ethanol has the potential to not only burn cleaner, but hotter? I have to find that article again. I thought I saved it. If anyone knows, please enlighten me.

[6'9"Witha69]

It has an effect here in America as well. The higher bushel price is impacting the livestock market and higher meat prices are expected. There was an entire US News article a few weeks back which laid it all out very well. The good, the bad, and the politics behind it all.

[Steve1968LS2]

Ethanol will never be widely adopted for one simple reason, money. Washington will never allow it.

I hear all this talk about corn. I read in several studies that corn is the LEAST ethanol yielding crop? If you want to produce high amounts of ethanol, sugar cane, or other (wheats?) is the way to go. Obviously, you all know, Brazil has been doing this for over a decade. If our government would get there heads out of their asses, and the oil company's hands out of their pocket books, ethanol would be made more readily available, and not just in it's bandaid mixture form of E85. That was the way it was explained to me. Set me straight if anyone else knows different. So yes, I would use it in my car. I also thought I read that ethanol has the potential to not only burn cleaner, but hotter? I have to find that article again. I thought I saved it. If anyone knows, please enlighten me.

How many cars in Brazil compared to how many cars in the US?

And how many other crops (for food) will be turned over to crops for E85? Sugar Cane will not grow in many areas where they plant corn. Besides, no matter what they plant it will still take up acerage previously used for food.

[EFI69Cam]

In Colorado much of the ethanol comes from beer waste. Coors and Bud both have huge breweries.
This raises the question as to whether or not all of Coors output should go to ethanol fuel, that stuff is nasty.

Making alcohol fuel from corn is not really productive, but there are other crops whose yield per acre of fuel is much higher. The fuel from these crops are oil based, and need diesel engines, but technology has improved them drastically over the last 10 years.

I don't care about E85, but I'd buy biodiesel if it was available closer to me.

[harshman]

"For every 1.3 gallons of ethanol produced, 1 gallon of standard oil-based fuel is consumed." - ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!!


For E85 to work it will still comes down to a demand issue. Not the demand by the government but entrepreneural work. You could circle the globe spouting the praises of clean” burning fuel all you want but if no one wants it, it aint gona fly. Reminiscent of the whole global warming thing – woops...political issues (not SCIENTIFIC). Electric cars fall into this category.

[jaybee]

I've been running 10% Ethanol in everything except 2 strokes for over 25yrs. The only problems I've ever had were in vehicles I knew had never run alcohol. In them the Ethanol would dissolve any varnish in the system and I'd have to change 1-2 fuel filters in a few thousand miles to catch it all. Never any seal, hose, or corrosion problems, nor any water issues. I live in Iowa where the Spring season can be very humid with extreme temperature swings, just the thing for condensation. Yield continues to improve and alcohol production with current technology provides a net energy gain, reducing the amount of oil needed in the production process. Impact on livestock production will be reduced over the next few years, as new plants are going online that produce Ethanol and vegetable oil, with the waste being an almost pure protein granule that is more easily digestible than raw corn. Once you separate the protein, oil, and cellulose (Ethanol raw material) for specialized use the required acreage and price impact will be reduced.

Oh, and fire-breathing race cars have been running on Alcohol for decades. E85 is alcohol with just enough gasoline mixed in so that it fires in any weather. Who wouldn't like to brag that they're running race fuel on the street?

[CSI:QUINCY]

There Is A Differance Between What Race Cars Have Been Running On Than Ethonal. Methonal Is What Race Car Have Been Runningon For Years. Methonal Comes From Wood Not Corn. It Also Has More Btu's So You Would Make More Hp On Methonal Over Ethonal.

[dropit69]

i live in middle of corn country and alot of the farmers dont mind as its raising corn for them and makes them more money..Brazil can get 2 pickings of corn per year ..unlike the midwest so they have alot more corn to go around and im sure not as many cars..