Noob here with a 77 T/A

[O'Neall]

Hi... I usually hang out (and moderate) over at www.transamcountry.com (as a matter of fact I see som of my fellow TACers here!).

I have a 77 Y81 Special Edition Trans Am (T-top delete Bandit car for those that don't know the Y81 code). It leaves for it's frame off resto/mod on 1/15/07. As of now I'm still toying with just what exactly to do suspension wise. Thought I might learn a lot here!

Looking forward to participating and sharing in all your wisdom!

[JChristian1835]

Welcome to the forum.. nice pick in a car.. now get some pictures up.. good luck with the resto

[Takid455]

welcome aboard fellow tac member. you can look at some of the mods that I am doing to my 78 on the tac page. i have apost on the restorations section with title, 78 mild custom.

[Bandit]

Nice! Isn't that kind of a rare car? I wouldn't chop it up and deviate from stock too much, but that's just me. If you stick with bolt-ons, you can always convert it over later if you sell it. Of course if you are planning to keep it forever then it doesn't matter. For suspension options, The preferred bang for your buck seems to be Hotchkis or Global West complete vehicle systems, they really work well.
Please keep us updated on the project!

[formula]

stock is too boring. I say hack it uppppp lol

Good to see you over here, man!

[O'Neall]

Well, I won't be hacking it up! LOL! About the only thing "permanent" I plan on doing to it is welding in some SFCs.

It is a fairly rare T/A as only 1861 of the hardtop version of SE were built in 1977. Of those only 933 were W72 cars (384 4spd & 549 auto). It's not a SD-455 or a Ram Air IV or anthing... but you definitely don't see Y81s everyday... plus, it's mine and I like it!

As I said in my intro, it leaves in a week for the restoration shop... will be getting a frame off rotesserie resto/mod. And as such I am shopping around for suspension ideas/advice. I definitely want to improve upon its stock setup, but I don't think I want to go the full "pro-touring" route. My goal is to basically to have it handle/ride like the 1997 WS6 T/A I used to own. That was the best handling car I've ever owned (stock WS6 suspension)... yet rode well enough to live with as a daily ride. I'm not really looking to build an ultimate "G-machine" that will rattle my fillings loose and send me searching for a comfy chair after an hour's ride. I just want a vintage looking 2nd Gen T/A that will handle (or even slightly outhandle) my old 97. To that end, this is my current plan... but of course, it is subject to change at any moment based on new info (much of which I am hoping to gain from you all!)

-Koni shocks all around
-12:1 steering
-stock 1 1/4" front sway bar
-stock 5/8" rear sway bar
-polyurethane F/R sway bar bushings
-polyurethane sway bar endlinks
-polyurethane leaf spring pads
-rubber U/L control arm bushings
-welded in Comp. Engr. SFCs
-polyurethane body/subframe mounts
-15x8" factory snowflake "WS6" wheels
-245/60R15 front tires, 295/50R15 rear tires (also considering 265/50R15s all around if they'll fit)
-stock coils (reuse originals as they have sagged to a nice ride height)
-stock leafs (new from Eaton Detroit)
(Here I must say that I am torn between adding lowering coils and leafs.)

I don't think the above really qualifies as pro-touring per se, maybe pro-tour-esque??? Maybe more pro-tour from a decade or so ago... heck I don't know!!!

Anyway, so... what's the concensus on the above... good? Bad? Average? I am torn between adding lowering coils and leafs. I really like the looks of some of the lowered cars, but have concerns about suspension travel clearance as well as wheel/tire clearance... and I really want to keep the 2nd Gen T/A 15x8 snowflake wheels, so tire choice is somewhat limited and restrictive perhaps with a lowered car.

[WhiteG240]

Welcome Jon.

Now I know why I couldn't get on to TAC for the past couple days.

Post more pictures if you can.

[O'Neall]

Here's a couple of quick pics... as I've mentioned... it's in need of (and is getting) a resto.

[Phishfud]

As another TAC refugee, I decided to seek out some other places, and here I am. Good to see some other TAC members have an interest in pro touring. O'Neall, looks like a pretty nice combo you are gonna do, and I know Jason will have that car done up sweet!

Terry

[6'9"Witha69]

It may need a resto but it looks decent as is. Based on your list above I will suggest a few changes:
1. Use delrin or del-a-lum bushings for the control arms instead of rubber. The defelection and bind of rubber is terrible. Do not be fooled into thinking solid bushings will adversely affect ride quality. On the contrary, if you are running rubber or urethane and they are binding it actually degrades ride quality.
2. Use the lowering springs from a reputable company ie Global West or Hotchkis. Use the shocks they recommend. The Hotchkis setup particularly uses tuned shocks for the best ride with added stiffness for handling. SHOCKS AFFECT FINAL RIDE QUALITY, NOT SPRINGS. Another benefit to the aftermarket springs is that they use 3 thicker leaves instead of 5. This helps greatly in reducing axle wrap resulting in wheel hop as the top leaf is thicker and stronger and the bias is toward the front of the spring.
3. Shocks are NO place to cheap out.
4. Use greasable sway bar bushings (Energy suspension style). Binding here can also create ride quality issues (first hand experience).
5. If you are using weld in SFCs then go solid body mounts. This is a must.
6. When rebuilding the front end, use good Moog, Howe or similar quality ball joints.
7. Add brakes to the list. You will need some good brakes inside those snowflakes.

Lastly, go as far as you want to go. The farther the better, but don't get lulled into the blingiest stuff out there. You can quickly find the definition for the principle of diminishing returns in this hobby.

Good luck and have fun!!

[O'Neall]

It may need a resto but it looks decent as is.

Thanks... it's in decent shape, but definitely needs to have some serious attention paid to it.

Based on your list above I will suggest a few changes:
1. Use delrin or del-a-lum bushings for the control arms instead of rubber. The defelection and bind of rubber is terrible. Do not be fooled into thinking solid bushings will adversely affect ride quality. On the contrary, if you are running rubber or urethane and they are binding it actually degrades ride quality.

Would solid bushings (ala Herb Adams VSE type) be just as good as the del-a-lum?

2. Use the lowering springs from a reputable company ie Global West or Hotchkis. Use the shocks they recommend. The Hotchkis setup particularly uses tuned shocks for the best ride with added stiffness for handling. SHOCKS AFFECT FINAL RIDE QUALITY, NOT SPRINGS. Another benefit to the aftermarket springs is that they use 3 thicker leaves instead of 5. This helps greatly in reducing axle wrap resulting in wheel hop as the top leaf is thicker and stronger and the bias is toward the front of the spring.
3. Shocks are NO place to cheap out.

I already have a set of Konis.

4. Use greasable sway bar bushings (Energy suspension style). Binding here can also create ride quality issues (first hand experience).

Roger that... was already gonna get the ones with the grease zerk.

5. If you are using weld in SFCs then go solid body mounts. This is a must.

I read this on www.pro-touringf-body.com as well (79T/Aman here on this forum) and it warned of cracked welds and oblong bolt holes... polyurethane won't be stiff enough to avoid this? Also, would I be better just skipping the SFCs? I am concerned about harsh ride and noise with solid body mounts!

6. When rebuilding the front end, use good Moog, Howe or similar quality ball joints.

Roger that... though from what I've been reading here on the forum it seems that Moog isn't what it used to be. Howe still got high ratings... and oddly enough so did the Napa brand!

7. Add brakes to the list. You will need some good brakes inside those snowflakes.

All in good time... the resto is the main budget focus now... brakes can come later if I need them. For now the stock front disc, rear drum system will have to suffice.

Lastly, go as far as you want to go. The farther the better, but don't get lulled into the blingiest stuff out there. You can quickly find the definition for the principle of diminishing returns in this hobby.

Good luck and have fun!!

Thanks... I will!!!

[lawbreaker2]

Another TAC member here, Wecome, It's nice to see these car get some spotlight.

[formula]

I have solid body mounts in my car and the ride quality is still fantastic. Don't worry about it--As was mentioned earlier, deflection and bind are going to do more to adversly affect ride quality than a more solid, direct connection will.

[critter]

Hey Jon. Get back to work over at TAC!

That's the pot calling the kettle black, huh? Hopefully Mike will have it fixed soon.

You should take the same attitude I did. Do every kind of mod you can to improve the car while maintaining a primaily stock look. They're more fun to drive when you do that.

[O'Neall]

Hey Chris... yeah Mike is hard at work... just got an email from him... he's having all kinds of problems with the software... he's basically starting from scratch again tonight. UGH!!

Anyway, yeah, I love the looks of the cars the way they are. That's why I'm sticking with the snowflakes. I've yet to find a wheel that looks better on a 2nd Gen T/A than an 8" snowflake. So till somebody comes out with a 17" version of them....

I am SERIOUSLY considering going with the lowering springs though... I know it'll not be stock looking... but stance is so subjective and I beginning to wonder if once I get stock replacement springs on the car if it'll look like it's jacked up to the sky!!!!! Tough to beat this stance:

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

[smacks on chewing gum..] i can diggit.. [/smacks on chewing gum..]

[formulafr]

more and more gen2 firebird, it's nice


welcome!