100k Trans Am??

[OldSchoolFormula]

Your nucking futs if you'd pull an SD motor out of an SD car to install an LSX. Thats like pulling a Ferrari motor out of a Ferrari to install an LSX. Or the motor out of a Dusenberg. Or the motor out of a Hemi Cuda. Or, or, or...

I mean, really. The LSX is a great engine, but it is not the end all be all, and you'd be silly to think so. You'd be even sillier to devalue the T/A by 500%. Sure, throw in an LSX into a 74 T/A, thats fine..but leave the damn SD cars out of it!

[Bandit]

I agree--the SD 455 was one of the last great engines from Detroit, it is a legend in its own rite, and if I had one I would build a time capsule to enshrine it. It was about the last motor before they lost all power and performance in the late 70's through early 80's. It is also rare and valuable. But--if you happen to have one of the years of TA's where the only option was a 301 Pontiac, 305 chevy, or God forbid the hilariously pathetic 301 Pontiac Turbo, ditch that boat anchor motor immediately and install some real power. These were all great cars, but most were hampered by political BS. An LS1/2 would be great, but it's easy to revive the spirit of the SD 455 cars in a relatively common late-70's/early '80's f-body with a simple carburated big-block swap, and who cares who made the engine because the car won't be #'s matching anyhow at that point. Especially if you go with a respectable OD manual trans, which you should. Not to mention their rear gear ratios sucked and must be changed--my '80 had 3:08 snoozer gears and my '79 had laughable 2:73's that killed the otherwise decent torque of the car's Olds 403 motor. IMHO

[Roadrage David]

Is this like your life's saying or something? This was the first thing you posted in response to my very first post on this site. I am a Pontiac guy through and through, but to claim that any GTO that rolled off the factory floor with a 400 was the fastest ever is just ludicrous. Plenty of cars were faster, and all cars were limited on the street by the crappy tires of the day. Which means that it usually came down to driving skills as far as who actually won the race. My dad had a '69 RAIII Judge 4-spd, and it was an awesome car, but still only ran 13's. To answer your rediculous question, yes, of course Chevelles have beat Goats. And Goats have beat Chevelles. And Mustangs have beat Goats and 'velles and vice-versa, etc., etc.

It sounds like you have a purist attitude that is just not in keeping with the spirit of what most of us are trying to do here. You bashed me for putting a big Chevy engine in place of my Pontiac POS 301, because you say I should have used a Pontiac motor instead. The ironic thing is that the Chevy 305 was an option for my Trans Am for that year, so the way I see it, what's the difference? Either way it wouldn't have the original engine. The factory does it, it's called corporate power. Get with the program, no one cares whether your car crosses the finish line 1st with a "Chebby," or "injun," or "wedge," or whatever. Only the #'s matching crowd cares, and they are not concerned with real performance for the most part. I am tempted to drop a blown Hemi between the fenders of my TA, just to piss off guys like you!

P.S. Your writing is very difficult to understand!

Now your over reacting and just being silly!!!!.. first of all im getting tired of ecsplaining 500 times a year that im dislectic and dutch. it takes a real man(like yourself) to bitch and moan about somebodys short comings while you ""do"" seem to understand what i put in my post.i for ones NEVER CLAIMD ore SAID fore you to stick a 301 poncho mill in your car . i dear you no i dubbel dear you to relocate that post and put it up here. about me being a purist hell no when it comes to special cars like the one mentiond in this topic(SD455) hell yes.. my own car started out as a first owner cali 1968 firebird 350 2 barrel 2 speed auto, a real girls car in perfect condition at the same time a perfect project for sticking in my hard eurnd 100 k to build one hell of a pro touring g mashine car,, with yes a Poncho injun mill in it the way it should be( brand loyalty).and reddy to kick your hybrid cheby ass 365 days a year. the only rezen why guys like you stick a chevy in there poncho is ignorens and lack of nowing what is availeble for the traditional injun engine. and the all mighty myth that poncho,s cant make power ,(how ignorend can you be) but the biggest rezen of them all to use a chevy in there is its CHEAPER(not) , lets face it no poncho guy is ever going to buy your car same gose for a chevy fan . do i care hell no.. do you, it must be because you seem to be very upset about someting said alredy a long time ago in a perfectly normal matter .. about you pissing me off sticking another brand engine in there not very likely, if your new to the usa car seen then its just being novice. in your case im kinda laughfing and look at it as the mock of the week being so ignorend...now are we going to continiew this ore led it be and go on with our daily bisenis talking bull**** around muscle cars..........

[rob07002]

Rob all the 70-72 cars are the very valueable especially the blue ones. They only had two colors to choose from in those years and most peple chose white with blue. The SD cars are leap years ahead of the other 73-74 cars because they are such a departure from the other cars even if it is only the engine that is different. 73 started the first year for more than two colors on the TA. They also started having more engine options and all the other options. So you could end up with a plain jane nothing really special TA. By the later years, like my 79, TAs where almost common place and rare wasn't a word associated with them. That is slowly starting to change. The 69 TA is so far above any other TA and almost any other car period. Valuable doesn't even begin to describe it. To those that see it for more than it's selling price, it is untouchable in every fashion. Give it a few more years and the price on them will be rediculous. I hope never to the stupid level that the Hemi cars have gotten, but it will get up there.

You know, I guess I just forgot about the SD cars. I can appreciate these as the Pontiac guys COPO or sim.

I really hope to own a 70-72 TA one day, and it wasn't too long ago you could get a completely restored one for under $20k. Man these cars are better then the market!

[Bandit]

lets face it no poncho guy is ever going to buy your car same gose for a chevy fan .

Now I know why they call you "Roadrage!" Sorry if I offended you, you're not my enemy, just another gearhead from a different school of thought.

Maybe we hang out in different circles, but I don't see too many brand loyalists anymore. In my opinion, the aftermarket has blurred the lines between the "big three" and others. Now it is possible to build a better car from the ground up with all new aftermarket parts. Classic "resto-mods" have proven immensely popular, as proven by myriad TV shows such as "Overhaulin." And yes, people will buy them if they are built right, and pay top dollar.

Brand loyalty only makes sense anymore to the #'s matching crowd. I am not bashing them in any way, as I love a beautifully restored machine and I believe certain machines should be preserved as an important part of our automotive history. But such cars are not built for performance--they're built for show. What cracks me up is how many of these guys don't respect my point of view, even while I respect theirs. I have actually had guys at Pontiac shows turn away in disgust from my car and refuse to talk to me, because I didn't restore my car to stock. And my car is not rare by any means or deserving of such a resto. The majority of folks can't get enough of it, and can appreciate what I am trying to do.

From a performance point of view, it doesn't make sense anymore to stick with OEM stuff. Not to mention, if you are building a car for yourself to drive and enjoy (which most of us are), build it how you want and to heII with what anyone says.

I am sure we are way off topic by now...what was this post about again?

[s10kool]

when you think about stock hp and engineering, which 2 GM car makers have blown away the others when they were always given the left overs and had less funding and thrown on the back burner as some would say during the 60's to late 80's
Pontiac - sd455
Buick- most known- 3.8 turbo
in the time of release they were the best engineered machines you could have and they worked best in the bodies they were originally installed in. well just my 2cents

[Bandit]

when you think about stock hp and engineering, which 2 GM car makers have blown away the others when they were always given the left overs and had less funding and thrown on the back burner as some would say during the 60's to late 80's
Pontiac - sd455
Buick- most known- 3.8 turbo
in the time of release they were the best engineered machines you could have and they worked best in the bodies they were originally installed in. well just my 2cents

I second that! Let's not forget the '64 GTO that sent all the others scrambling to catch up, and the Buick GS that snuck up on the better-known muscle cars of the day, prompting people to ask "What kind of car is that?" after it just had just blown their doors off!

[OldSchoolFormula]

my '80 had 3:08 snoozer gears and my '79 had laughable 2:73's that killed the otherwise decent torque of the car's Olds 403 motor. IMHO

My '73 still has those 3.08's, lol. I wonder how much time I'd pick up with the 3.73's in the garage. Think the LS1 would like em? Runs 13.00's right now with 2.2 60's. But still, 2.73's aren't bad, the 2.56's in a buddies 78 T/A are bad, evenm with my old 400/2004R combo. It won't even break em loose, it just kinda chirps all the way through 1st gear till ~60MPH. LoL! And the OD coupled with those gears makes for some serious low RPM high speed cruising...

[Bandit]

My '73 still has those 3.08's, lol. I wonder how much time I'd pick up with the 3.73's in the garage. Think the LS1 would like em? Runs 13.00's right now with 2.2 60's. But still, 2.73's aren't bad, the 2.56's in a buddies 78 T/A are bad, evenm with my old 400/2004R combo. It won't even break em loose, it just kinda chirps all the way through 1st gear till ~60MPH. LoL! And the OD coupled with those gears makes for some serious low RPM high speed cruising...

Do it to it, it will probably feel like you picked up 50 hp!
Don't get me wrong, my '79 pulled hard and cruised all day at a decent RPM, but to do a respectable burnout I had to practically stand on the brakes and what's the fun in that? It's a lot more fun smokin em through 1-2-3 and having some snappy response down low when you're actually trying to go somewhere in a hurry.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

100k?

wooord?

[LowBuckX]

LIAR

Wow your a bright one
Im wondering how with you being in the Nether regions did you live the scene on the streets of the USA IN the 60S and 70s? Books are slanted and genneraly 50% true. Anyone can write a book it just takes a real ignorant person to beleive everything word for word cover to cover.

[Roadrage David]

Now I know why they call you "Roadrage!" Sorry if I offended you, you're not my enemy, just another gearhead from a different school of thought.

Maybe we hang out in different circles, but I don't see too many brand loyalists anymore. In my opinion, the aftermarket has blurred the lines between the "big three" and others. Now it is possible to build a better car from the ground up with all new aftermarket parts. Classic "resto-mods" have proven immensely popular, as proven by myriad TV shows such as "Overhaulin." And yes, people will buy them if they are built right, and pay top dollar.

Brand loyalty only makes sense anymore to the #'s matching crowd. I am not bashing them in any way, as I love a beautifully restored machine and I believe certain machines should be preserved as an important part of our automotive history. But such cars are not built for performance--they're built for show. What cracks me up is how many of these guys don't respect my point of view, even while I respect theirs. I have actually had guys at Pontiac shows turn away in disgust from my car and refuse to talk to me, because I didn't restore my car to stock. And my car is not rare by any means or deserving of such a resto. The majority of folks can't get enough of it, and can appreciate what I am trying to do.

From a performance point of view, it doesn't make sense anymore to stick with OEM stuff. Not to mention, if you are building a car for yourself to drive and enjoy (which most of us are), build it how you want and to heII with what anyone says.

I am sure we are way off topic by now...what was this post about again?

to tell you the truth i would walk away ore not even bother chekking a pontiac with a chevy engine eather!!!. brand loalty hase nothing to do with matchin nrs imo, haveing said that every man for himself . i consider the engine the harth and soul of the car, together with its body shell its the origenal disighn of the brand , staying within these options tuning a car up towards a serius piece of mashinery with all the upgrades gives me at least the feeling that im still driving a Pontiac Firebird ore transam ore GTO. THE NAME pONTIAC STANDS FOR SOMETING SAME GOSE FOR THE OTHER BRANDS, sticking diferend engines of varius brands in there, makes it just a car!!! the identety is gone............

[Roadrage David]

Wow your a bright one
Im wondering how with you being in the Nether regions did you live the scene on the streets of the USA IN the 60S and 70s? Books are slanted and genneraly 50% true. Anyone can write a book it just takes a real ignorant person to beleive everything word for word cover to cover.

was mend as a comik relief!!,.................. every american muscle car from the 60,s and 70,s where also produced in the Swiss and Belgium GM plants overhere in europe, same as in the usa, but build with swiss and euro ecselence.. in the 60,s i was to young in the 70,s plenty of a muscle cars blasting around here on a daily basis witch made me a muscle car nut.

[Charley Lillard]

A different angle example....... A 32 Ford with a Chevy engine is worth more than the same car with a Ford engine.

[Bandit]

brand loalty hase nothing to do with matchin nrs imo, haveing said that every man for himself . THE NAME pONTIAC STANDS FOR SOMETING SAME GOSE FOR THE OTHER BRANDS, sticking diferend engines of varius brands in there, makes it just a car!!! the identety is gone............

So then I guess we should break the sad news to all the proud owners of 3rd and 4th gen Firebird and Trans Ams out there that they are not driving "real" Pontiacs--their cars all have a Chevy corporate engine. Not to mention my other TA, it's a '79 with the factory Olds 403, I guess it's not a Pontiac either? Dang, I'll never be able to sell it!

[WS6]

not to split hairs too much as it really doesn't matter, but the Fourth gens had GM corporate engines. They were not Chevy's. The TPI can be agured to be GM Corporate but it really is nothing more than EFI for a SBC. The gen II(LT1) and gen III are new design GM corporate engines.

Rob you're right. The second gen TAs have been ahead of the market in appreciation. The later ones are gaining value ever so quietly. TATA(10th Anniversay) cars, 50th anniversary, and W72 cars are leading the pack.

Charley, I love your little snippets of information that just seem to pop up as your read down the screen. thanks.

[Bandit]

not to split hairs too much as it really doesn't matter, but the Fourth gens had GM corporate engines. They were not Chevy's. The TPI can be agured to be GM Corporate but it really is nothing more than EFI for a SBC. The gen II(LT1) and gen III are new design GM corporate engines.

Thanks, that just reinforces my point. I should have written "Chevy/corporate" because 3rd and 4th gens used either/or. Either way, no Pontiac engines were put in a Pontiac f-body for 20 years (1982-2002). The point is, who gives a flip if you stick a GM (whatever) engine in your f-body. As long as it's not a rare or desireable example (i.e. SD 455 or 400 4-spd SE), it won't devalue the car IMHO.

[Roadrage David]

Thanks, that just reinforces my point. I should have written "Chevy/corporate" because 3rd and 4th gens used either/or. Either way, no Pontiac engines were put in a Pontiac f-body for 20 years (1982-2002). The point is, who gives a flip if you stick a GM (whatever) engine in your f-body. As long as it's not a rare or desireable example (i.e. SD 455 or 400 4-spd SE), it won't devalue the car IMHO.

I beg to differ sir!!. go on e bay ore any other car selling site and look at the valieuw of a olds powerd firebird ore chevy compared to the traditional injun engine!! the proof is in the puding , bij the way by the time pontiac had to stick in 403 olds engines in there cars GM alredy disided to cansel the pmd and other motor divisions. the olds 403 was availeble in big quantties and needed to used up first.............. and indeed the pontiac comunety is still very sad that the 3 gens where and are running around with chevy engines someting they cant change. the incorperate later and today engines are more acsepted is the pontiac cars like the GTO,,,,,,,,,,,,,,........

[southernfriedcj]

Give me a '72 455HO!

[Bandit]

indeed the pontiac comunety is still very sad that the 3 gens where and are running around with chevy engines someting they cant change. the incorperate later and today engines are more acsepted is the pontiac cars like the GTO,,,,,,,,,,,,,,........

Well I guess the Pontiac faithful got over it, 'cause I see lots of them driving newer F-bodies. Let's face it, they were great cars, poncho motor or not. And they sold like hotcakes. At least GM didn't put Isuzu 4-bangers or something in them.
I guess you and I will have to respectfully agree to disagree, or we'll be arguing about this until they ban internal combustion.