Shock recommendation

[Jeremy]

I just finished the vette brakes mono spring conversion and found that the factory second gen shocks are too long. In looking at shock specs, it looks like first gen f body shocks should be short enough to work.

For those that are wondering I need a shock with a compressed length of 9 inches or a little less with the suspension at full compression. Max length at full drop is 11 1/2 inches.

I was quite pleased with the Edelbrock shocks but I have read some posts that say Edelbrocks don't work as well with stiffer springs. If someone can comment on the suitability of these shocks with stiffer springs, please do so. VBP said that the Edelbrock shocks should work real well with the setup FWIW. I haven't been able to drive the car more than in and out of the garage due to the weather, but the VBP spring is a little stiffer.

I am running some old cheapo shocks right now to make sure there are no other bugs.

Give me some recommendations in the under $150/ea range.

I did also speak to VBP about the shock length and they seemed genuinely suprised. George had never heard of a problem with stock shocks. I wonder if anyone else had run the suspension through its full range of moton before hooking up the spring to find this out. The other thing I found out was the Edlebrock shocks were a little longer compressed than the parts store cheapies. Probably would never matter in a stock setup but I thought I would share as it might matter on a lowered car.

I wonder if the complaints of ride harshness on the VBP setup might be due to shocks bottoming out over some bumps?

While checking things out I put a level on the shocks with the car at a simulated ride height and the shock was vertical so I was happy to see that. I will also be checking the distance from the pivot point to see if VBP changed the motion ratio.

[Jeremy]

I got a chance to drive the car today in town and a few miles at highway speeds. The ride is quite acceptable and it actually takes bumps better.

I definitely need to get the shock issue sorted out as the el cheapos do some weird things with the combo. Bumps below 20 mph and the car is real bouncing feeling, not harsh, just under damped? Between 20 and 40 and things are pretty smooth. Bumps to one side only pass without issue, although bumps to both wheels are a little bouncy. Above 40 and it is real smooth. I was very pleased with the handling as it is much quicker to respond than the factory setup.

The car feels much lighter as well. I did raise the front ride height 3/8 inch and I am sure that has something to do with it, but I would guess the 33 pound weight savings helped as well.

Please chime in with shock recommendations as I know I will need something decent to get things dialed in. I am leaning towards Konis right now, although I would like to know how you adjust them as the setup makes removing shocks to adjust them a pain.

[SHANE 73Z]

Jeremy,

I have kinda had the same feeling with the Edelbrock shocks. The front feels way underdamped especially on the rebound side of travel.

I also ran into the same thing when I installed my circle track springs & adjusters. When I first dropped the car, it was about 2" too low and it blew the seals on the driver side shocks. I believe I have heard people comment that an S-10 shock is a good alternative for length. I dont know what you might find for valving in them though.

Shane

[jeffandre]

I installed the VBP mono spring setup over 10 years ago and had to install 'bushings' in between the bottom of the lower control arm and the shock mounts bar to essentially allow my stock length Koni shocks to fit properly. The bushings are made out of stainless tubing, cut to a length between 0.75-1.0 inches in length. I used longer grade 8 bolts to bolt the shocks into place with no problems. I have heard that the standard Bilstein's are the shocks of choice for the mono spring system, straight from VBP when I was researching this very topic 2 years ago, so I will likely purchase t a set at some point (less than $300 for a set of 4).

Apparently the standard Bilstein's (not the heavy duty versions) have the best affordable off-the-shelf design for our mono spring system. I am sure that some double-adjustable shocks would probably be the ultimate, however getting them set right would require magic and luck for most of us.

[chicane67]

X2.... Bilsteins.

[Jeremy]

Spacers between the shock and the a arm was my next step. I am glad you gave me your lengths as I was looking at 3/4 to start with. I am actually running some parts store cheapies right now. I was going to try the Edelbrocks with spacers next week and see how that goes.

Bilsteins were coming up high on my list although I haven't been able to find out for sure if they make one for a first gen f body as the length should be a little shorter.

I hope to get out and drive the car again today, a little longer this time. So far I am quite pleased with the system. The ride is much better than I thought given reviews that I have read. Once I get the shocks dialed in, it should be great.

[Jeremy]

I got a chance to drive the car on my "test" loop today which is a 10 mile round trip with a mix of city streets, county highways, and interstate.

I was actually very pleased with the ride. I actually think the ride is much much improved over the ws6 springs. Now it is probaby not fair as the factory springs were 26 years old, but the ride is very nice.

The creaks over driveway cuts are gone as well and the suspension seems to track over bumps better. Road noise seems less as well. The fiberglass spring was touted to soak up irregularities and vibrations and I believe it after today's drive.

Handling is phenominal. I would have thought increasing the front stiffness would have made it understeer badly, but it is more neutral. It is so balanced and goes right where it is pointed. Turn in is a hair slow but I have not double checked the alignment so there maybe something there, although the car drives great.

[Marcus SC&C]

Jeremy, ditto on the Bilsteins. If the rate of the mono spring is higher than your WS6 springs you might want to try the revalved Hotchkis Bilsteins shocks. They`re only a little stiffer but it should still help.
Adj. shocks would really be the way to go though so you can tune them to your taste and driving style. QS1 16 way adj. Varishocks are $177ea.,not too much over your target price and well worth it for the performance gain and tunability. The 1st gen fronts are 12.55" OAL, 4.25" travel and 8.30" compressed.
If the springs raised the ride height 3/8" you lost a little + caster,just a tiny bit of - camber (probably 1/8* or less) and gained some toe in (again probably very little) which might explain some of the slower turn in. The rest may be the additional springs rate. Understeer doesn`t always show up as a gross balance change it can also deaden turn in. If you`re running poly bushings with the front bar you might want to try rubber at least on the end links to take the edge off the bar sometimes that`ll help turn in if the front roll rate is a little high. Once you check the alignment you may not need to though. Mark SC&C

[Jeremy]

Marcus,

Thanks for the replies. I figured I lost a little on my alignment.

I called Bilstein today and was blown away by their customer service. Through my research I had found that a 69 camaro shock should have fit my length requirements (it was also listed for 70-76 camaro so that helped). I asked them for the compressed length and they came back in seconds with it. I explained to them that I was working on non stock application and needed a shock to fit a GM application with a compressed height between 8.5 and 9 inches. They found a chevelle application and I asked them to compare the valving as I needed the one with higher rebound damping. Within seconds again, they told me that the camaro application had slightly higher rebound damping.

By far some of the best customer service/technical support I had ever gotten from a large manufacturer. If their shocks were as good as advertised I will be quite pleased.

I ended up ordering the shocks for a 69 Camaro and had them shipped next day. They should be here on Monday and I am off so I should get them installed.

The only downside is I received an email from a Bilstein shock dealer after I placed my order stating that the lower t-bar might be different. Every GM car from 66 to 80 that I have worked on seemed to have the same lower shock mount. Can anyone confirm? I will check them off course before I mount them, but it will drive me crazy all weekend wondering if they are the same.

[6'9"Witha69]

The Bilstein T bars don't even line up on GW control arms unlike most other brands. A little filing to elongate the hole in the cross bar made 'em fit. If they are too far off to fit for you, see if the cross bars for your existing shocks will fit and swap 'em in.

[Jeremy]

My order from summit came today and they shipped the wrong shocks. They are Bilsteins but I have no idea what application they would be for. The length is way to long to be a front shock and it has a t bar on one end and a stud at 90 degrees to the shock on the other.

Since I had time on my hands I mounted the Edelbrocks with some 3/4 inch spacers. Everything fits this way and I have 95 % full suspension travel. It is still slightly bouncy at slow speeds but only when both wheels encounter a bump. I think that has something to do with the mono leaf. The spring rate feels real mild on the lowest setting. I can move the suspension fairly easily by pushing on the fender. In driving it is not harsh over most bumps. There are some bumps that are harsh before and after the suspension change so I am not blaming that on the suspension.

It handles wonderfully. By far the best handling car I have driven. The highway ride is amazingly smooth. I am probably most suprised with the decreased road noise. The car seems sooo much quiter.
I'll probably try the poly spring to arm bushings to see if the rubber are loading and unloading enough to add to the bouncy problem. It takes about 10 minutes to switch them out so it is no big deal to go back. The setup is very repeatable in its setup. I set the end bolts to the same length as before and the ride height was exactly the same as before switching shocks (you have to remove the spring to swap shocks).

I'll drive the car at least a month with the Edelbrock shocks and continue to research shock options. I'll see if I can get the shock values from Bilstein for 4th-6th gen vettes as they use a similar setup. I figure you don't hear about vettes being bouncy, so whatever they use must control the fiberglass spring very well. I'll probably research the vari shocks a bit more and see what they have to offer. I like the adjustable rebound and their's looks pretty easy to adjust.

Overall I am very pleased with the setup. I love the highway ride and the town ride is very liveable and better than the stock setup.

[Jeremy]

Marcus,

Thanks for the tip on the rubber end link bushings. I swapped them in today and the turn in was much crisper. The ride seamed better as well as the bouncy feeling being drastically diminished.

It gets aligned tomorrow.

[Marcus SC&C]

No problem. I`m glad it worked out for you. It`s amazing how a little tweak here and there can make a big difference sometimes. Mark SC&C

[Jeremy]

With respect to shocks, I will pass on something I read on another board. Several people reported that the Edelbrocks can be choppy during cold weather and that the Bilsteins don't have the same problem.

I can't comment on the Bilsteins yet, but I might be inclined to believe it about the Edelbrocks. The first few times I drove my car with the VBP suspension and the Edelbrocks, the weather was 20 to 30 degrees. I picked it up from the alignment shop today and it was 55 to 60 degrees. The car ran super smooth with no bounce or choppiness, so there may be something to what I read.

One other quesion, with my current setup, the max caster they could get was 2.7 degrees keeping camber in spec. Going with the arms from Marcus seems like the only way I can get more. I am not opposed to this, but I am looking for opinions on how much I will notice a caster change from 2.7 degrees to 4.5-5 degrees before I spend any money.

[chicane67]

2.7 to 4.5-5 is going to make a very noticeable difference in high speed stability and incrrease the road feel in the steering wheel itself.

I'd say... its time for some arms. 5-6* would even be better for some alignment configurations... and maybe it will for the VBP stuff as well.

[Jeremy]

The transverse spring is supposed to be 80% stiffer in roll than a comparable rate coil spring. Apparently the vette engineers were trying to do away with a front bar and use the unique properties of the transverse leaf.

I thought I would test this theory and loosened my endlinks (rubber) as much as I could just before they would rattle. I drove the car this way and it was wonderfull. The car was very balanced and ride over bumps was greatly improved. I don't know how much the front bar is working now.

I will probably remove the endlinks and see how things go. I would definitely say I will be at least moving to a smaller front bar to balance things out and smooth out the ride. It will also reduce the weight on the front.

I'll keep everyone posted, but so far the possibilities look good.

[Jeremy]

I was bored today and figured I would play with the spring rate on the VBP setup. It took 30 minutes or less to change the rate and I went from the softest to the middle setting.

The ride is so much better. It felt like the first setting may have been bottoming out suspension travel. Bumps are much softer and the car is much controlled. The bouncy feeling is much less as well, but I figured that might happen. It also made the front end a little stiffer in turns but I too would have guessed that given a stiffer spring rate.

The system is definitely adjustable and easy to change. I can't wait until the Bilsteins come in to see how that affects things.

[81Nascar]

Sounds pretty awesome.

[Jeremy]

The Hotchkis Bilsteins for a 69 Camaro came today and I got them installed. The lower mounts needed a little massaging as they were a little narrow, but otherwise no problems. They were the perfect length and I now have full suspension travel.

With the springs set on medium, the ride was incredible. Bumps that used to make me slow down and cringe pass without any fuss. The car feel so light and responsive. Turn in is very crisp and this is still with the endlinks as loose as I can go. The next step is to remove them and see if I even need a front bar.

On bumps were both tires hit the bump at the same time, it feels like I could use just a tad more rebound control, but it is not uncomfortable at all. The car never feels out of control. It rides so smooth that I will most likely try the stiffest setting on the spring.

I am truly amazed the difference a set of shocks can make. It makes me wonder how well the Hotchkis Bilsteins would work on the rear with the stock leaves.

[6'9"Witha69]

I am truly amazed the difference a set of shocks can make. It makes me wonder how well the Hotchkis Bilsteins would work on the rear with the stock leaves.

Shocks make all the difference in the world. Glad to hear your combo is coming out right.