whats your guys take

[Co4416]

hi all, i have a 69 Camaro coupe and would eventually like to go the pro-touring route but for now am just trying to get her running right. we've done a ssbc disc brake swap up front and theres hotchkis drop springs all around as well as polyurethane suspension bushings. now the car has the original 327 that it came with. its not in great shape and not worth rebuilding(2 bolt etc.). i have been talking to a shop and theyre willing to build up a 350 with aluminum fastburn heads, electronic ignition, cam, roller rockers etc to the tune of about 430 horsepower. also the tranny would need to be replaced and the rear as well to handle the power. theyre saying ~9 thousand dollars for this. good deal? i dont know much about engines so what im asking basically is does this sound fair for parts and labor. thanks

[Tom Welch]

Dude, the 327 is woth rebuilding. A high winding smallblock is a great pro-touring engine. Think 7000+ rpm capability, aluminum heads, EFI, etc. You almost cant blow the thing up. All 327 blocks were 2 bolt main, if memory serves. 9000.00 can buy a lot of stuff. I would build the 327 and a good automatic overdrive or manual with a 9 inch or 12 bolt differential will make a killer setup. If the guys at the shop tell you that a 327 isnt a player then they are just after some quick money in my opinion. Research the 327 and the rest of the drivetrains desired performance before you listen to anyone else, even me. Knowledge is power as they say.

[6'9"Witha69]

Is $9k for the tranny and rear end work as well? If that is the quote for that engine only it is too much IMO. I have had bigger more powerful engines buiilt for ~$5500-$6500. I would price your package at about $4.5k. A couple great alternatives are the ZZ383 (383 cid 425hp) or the Fast Burn 385 (350 cid 385hp) crate engines. Just add Carb and acessories plus you get a GM warranty.

[rocketrod]

Exactly what are you getting for $9K? Engine only, or does it include trans, rear end, etc?

[Co4416]

the owner of the shop that would be doing the work is a family friend so i dont think they'd be trying to rip us off, hopefully. and the 9k is for everything: the engine, tranny and rear plus labor. i'll look into the 327 more before i do anything, but would a 350 still be ok in a pro-touring application. i realize that a lot of it has to do with how the engine is setup. we are also looking at msd for the ignition and moser for the rear. any comments on that? pluses, negatives, alternatives?

[MonzaRacer]

You can throw a 327 short block together for $1500 or less, (if its already got a steel crank, ie small journal) but fully blueprinted, even with a decently prepped stock cast crank and some fresh ARP fasteners that little mouse can roar.
Just put one together through the summer, 030 bore(forged 1/8th in domed pistons, squared, honed with torque plate, prepped (cast) crank, ballanced. We slid in a LT4 hot roller from GMPP and comp retrofit roller lifters and dressed it with AFR 185 heads and a Performer RPM with injector bungs and he bought an aftermarket 4 barrel throttle body and hung MegaSquirt on it and it turned 437hp and we then hit with a fogger setup and it pulled down a respectable 638 hp on a 150 shot(will go to 300 but didnt want to chance the cast crank) but it will pul right up to the 7500 redline. it has about 8000 miles on it and we did get in at around 1500 for the short block and he got the heads slightly used (less than 1000 miles)with intake then we modified it. He tied it to a TKO600 and I built him a 12 bolt chevy for the Nova he put it in. They used Jegster SSbars and ART air bags in rear an shock waves up front and less the 900 dollar car and other considerations only had $7500 in driveline including the custom driveshaft. But he did put it in him self and the MegaSquirt we worked on together but it works awesome now. He got 38 mpg cruising out west this year.
while bigger is better but gee whiz throw away a perfectly good 327 just to go with everyone else.
Heck my next PT engine for my 77Monza is gonn be a full forged 283, 040 flat tops. I am gonna use a set of 307 185 castings and use 184/160 pro flow valves and port the heads. Still debating on the cam,,, probably an older Camaro dual pattern stock roller or maybe a custom roller. Still thinking on doing a remote turbo set up like Squires STS systems.
I built a 267 block/262 crank(3.50 bore X 3.10 crank) "tiny block" for a fella who put it in an MG of all things, made 320 hp, now he wants to turbo it!
DARE TO BE DIFFERENT!
Lee Abel

[Co4416]

i havent ruled anything out yet. we're still considering everything, rebuilding the 327, building up a 350, or going the GMPP route with either the ZZ4 or Fast burn 385. as far as the ZZ4 and the Fast burn 385, could someone please explain the differences, which would be better/more potential down the line if i wanted to build more power later down the road.

[6'9"Witha69]

i havent ruled anything out yet. we're still considering everything, rebuilding the 327, building up a 350, or going the GMPP route with either the ZZ4 or Fast burn 385. as far as the ZZ4 and the Fast burn 385, could someone please explain the differences, which would be better/more potential down the line if i wanted to build more power later down the road.

Only difference is heads. But if you just want a base motor now and plan to build up later, one of the big things to change is heads, so they will be out either way. But the fastburn heads can really be done well and support to about 450-470 hp with a little porting. Do a cam swap and viola!

[6'9"Witha69]

Or, as stated by MonzaRacer, the 327 is a very stout engine with great potential. Crate motors are great since they are prebuilt. If you want to save money and have the tools/skills to build your own do it.

And 350s make fine PT engines.

[Co4416]

ive been looking around online and saw that with the LT4 HOT cam(i think) and 1.6 rockers on the ZZ4 or 385 would raise it up to ~ 430 horses. i guess making a zz430 replica? does that sound about right?

[Lowend]

For engine, Trans rebuild (with good torque converter), and rearend rebuild $9K is about right.
I'm not a huge fan of the ZZ shortblock for buildups as it has crappy pistons and is not an balanced rotating assy,
For ~$7K you can have built a pretty mean 383 stroker that will absolutely crush the ZZ430 for torque production.

[Co4416]

the dealer we've been talking to said that they'd sell a ZZ4 for ~ 4 grand w/ a 3 year, 40k mile warranty, so bascially a 3 year warranty as theres no way i'd be putting that many miles on the car in that amount of time. it looks like we'll be going with one of the GMPP engines, just not sure if itll be the 385 or the ZZ4 yet. also as far as transmissions go, whats your thoughts on tremec and the TKO? i'd like to have a 5th gear for the highway so its not up at such a high rpm the whole time and so that my fuel economy would be a little better. would it be better to go with a T-56? or something else??

[Lowend]

You best read the fine print on that warranty... I've never seen GM actually honor one.

The TKO500 is the industry standard right now. Its probably overkill for this setup, but it leaves you a lot of room to grow.
The Tremec T-5 is a piece of crap which had trouble surviving in stock 200HP 305's
With this docile of an engine I would certainly consider a T-56, loafing at 1400RPM on the freeway is really nice.