Steering boxes - get what you pay for?

[Boulder69]

It's time to upgrade the steering box on my 1st gen. I can pay as low as $170 for an auto chain IROC box, $350 for one from AGR, or $500 for one from ATS. Is there really a $330 difference in performance between the IROC and ATS box? I guess I really don't know what the difference is internally between them, so if someone could explain it to me then I can make an informed decision. Any and all input is appreciated.

[68Formula]

Use the search function in the suspension forum. I'm sure you'll find all the information you need.

[BRIAN]

I just bought a rack from AGR and was blown away with the quality VS. Flaming River. If the finish and parts incl reflect on the drive quality there is zero comparison. I will post folow up once driven.

[Boulder69]

Yeah, I did search first. They seem to have the same ratios and fitment, that's about all the info I found. I am looking for specific internal differences that would justify the higher cost.

[neki67]

Yeah, I did search first. They seem to have the same ratios and fitment, that's about all the info I found. I am looking for specific internal differences that would justify the higher cost.

I also would like to see some more info on the 'practical' differences. Is it really like having a rack & pinion or can you only notice the difference comparing tracktimes? Is there really a difference between the AGR and the ATS box or is it (more or less) brandmarketing?

[vintageracer]

One of the biggest things you do not or may not get with the cheaper boxes is the correct internal "stops" necessary for your specific cars steering system. Bolting on a junkyard box from an IROC will certainly give you a quicker steering ratio than a stock Saginaw box however there is a good chance your turning radius will be compromised. It may be shorter or much longer depending what is correct for your car.

Many of the cheap rebuilt boxes are certainly rebuilt with new seals and maybe a replacement of worn parts but rarely do they offer the exact/correct steering box stops for your specific car. One box fits MANY applications.

This is one BIG difference I have seen between the cheap and expensive boxes and this is a BIG difference.

[Todds69]

I would say that the ATS box you could feel the difference at the track if you are pounding it real hard all the time. But if this car doesn't spend any time on the track I wouldn't fork out the extra dough. I plan on using the AGR box when I go to switch over from manual to power steering. My 2 pennies.

[Boulder69]

Many of the cheap rebuilt boxes are certainly rebuilt with new seals and maybe a replacement of worn parts but rarely do they offer the exact/correct steering box stops for your specific car. One box fits MANY applications.

Thanks Mike. But from what I understand the IROC-specific box does have virtually the same angular range (stops) as a 1st gen power box, but with a quicker ratio. That much I have learned from the Search function and Pozzi's site. Is this not the case? Anyone?

Thanks to all for the input. Keep it coming please. -e

[blown69nova]

I have an IROC box on my 69 Nova and it made a big difference in feel and ratio, but my turning radius is less now. It's really not a problem though, I only notice it when I'm doing a u-turn.
Steve

[Elusive R]

From what I've read, the best box you can buy comes from Lee Manufacturing (they're in CA somewhere - search will turn up the contact info). I believe they have a newer model box that is supposed to be right up there with rack and pinion. They also build nearly all of the NASCAR boxes in use (again, just what I've read). I don't know anything about the ATS boxes, though.

Ryan

[TitoJones]

Our box is built for exclusively for us by Tom Lee of Lee Engineering. The difference between our box and an off the shelf AGR box is huge.
Tom takes a brand new Delphi 670 P/S box, and completely disassembles it. He then re-valves it with the same valving found in rack and pinions, magna-fluxes the box, blueprints it, dyno flows it, zinc coats the case, and re-assembles it. No other company does this (including Flaming River, AGR, and the non ceramic coated DSE 600 box) to their steering gears. Most just take a reman built where ever, and call it good enough.
An AGR, Flaming River, DSE 600, and IROC box is not going to have a tight a feel as ours, and the valving on ours is directly comparable to a 02 Camaro rack and pinion.
19 years from now when guys are replacing the other brands box, our Lee built one will perform just like it did when it came out of the box.

Tyler

[Elusive R]

Our box is built for exclusively for us by Tom Lee of Lee Engineering.

Cool!

These run about $500? Definitely going on my list if/when I end up getting my car or another ready for track duty.

Ryan

[MarkM66]

I'm running an IROC box, and I wouldn't recomend it. The ratio is quick, but too quick for the lack of feel it has.

A better box would of been a good investment.

[diffdude]

Any body know if a delph(600) box off a 99-present chevy truck will work? And what the truck boxes ratios are.

[tomspo04]

I just bought a rack from AGR and was blown away with the quality VS. Flaming River. If the finish and parts incl reflect on the drive quality there is zero comparison. I will post folow up once driven.

I would stay as far away from AGR as I could. I litterly would not use one of their parts if it was given to me free! I tried to use one of their (purpose built) high performance set-ups on my 2000 Ford SuperDuty. Everything they sent me was crap!...bad boxes, wrong fittings, noisey pumps, the list goes on...it was a nightmare!

[James OLC]

My Lee Engineering 670 box arrived yesterday. Tyler at ATS hooked me up with it and I was really impressed. If you want all of the advantages of a rack without the problems they bring in a first gen package, this is an obvious choice.

[silver69camaro]

I would stay as far away from AGR as I could. I litterly would not use one of their parts if it was given to me free! I tried to use one of their (purpose built) high performance set-ups on my 2000 Ford SuperDuty. Everything they sent me was crap!...bad boxes, wrong fittings, noisey pumps, the list goes on...it was a nightmare!

So just because you had a bad experience, all their stuff is no good? I don't think so. They've proven they're stuff on racetracks all across the country...both steering boxes and R&Ps. AGR rack and pinions are DAMN TOUGH...same goes for their boxes. I deal with guys who use their stuff on road course events every weekend, along with my own personal experience, it's well known in this industry that AGR makes good products.

[LowBuckX]

abc

[David Pozzi]

Thanks Mike. But from what I understand the IROC-specific box does have virtually the same angular range (stops) as a 1st gen power box, but with a quicker ratio. That much I have learned from the Search function and Pozzi's site. Is this not the case? Anyone?

Thanks to all for the input. Keep it coming please. -e

The 3rd gen boxes have less available turn angle. One of the stops is the end plug thickness, the other is on the top side of the power piston.

If you have the short outer steering arms, you probably will be OK but if your outer arms are long, then you need to use a long pitman arm and will be near the limit of the stops.
David

[72monteman]

I just put a Lee box in my Monte and WOW!!! What a difference, it is firmer than my 05 Mustang was. Yeah it cost a little more but to answer your original question, yes you do get what you pay for.