Aftermarket Seats

[Maverick Man]

I'm sure there are standards like anything else and I'm willing to put money up that passing them is very easy, I work in the industry and see everyday what is considered "passed federal standards".

How much cash you got? cuz i could sure use some to put a roll bar in. I know you said you work in the industry and see everyday what is considered "passed federal standards". Then you would know that the standard is not easy, if anything it’s a pain in the ass. All vehicles pass this standard during crash testing. That is like saying the FAA, and the FDA, have very easy standards for passing their tests. Now that doesn’t mean they miss stuff but wouldn’t you say that better then no testing at all? Testing actually very complex, and protective of the consumers. These are government run agencies with the public's safety in mind, and their only priority. Not to meantion my father worked for a company that tested products to pass automotive parts federal or state standards or regulations... easier said then done when your not doing it. A good example are crash test. If you have ever seen one alot goes into it!

Aftermarket manufacturers love to advertise how they passed this test and that test.

You say “aftermarket manufacturers love to advertise how they passed this test and that test.” Your right! Sure aftermarket manufacturers love to advertise how they passed this test and that test. If you had a company that wanted to show why your seat is better then some knock off made in china and separate yourself from something that is not even close to your product. I’m sure you would promote that your seat meets certain requirements too.

After a couple decades of building cars I have found it best to do my own real world testing than to rely on claims made by those trying to sell the parts.

Agreed! cams, tire, headers, sparkplugs, intakes, tires, carbs, etc. By all means for sure why wouldn’t you? However personally I wouldn’t want to test out a seat, seat belt, roll bar, helmet or any safety equipment made in china, some third world country or even the USA on my own even if I was building cars for 20 years. In fact I don’t know any other way a normal person would be able to test such an item like seats or a belt besides crashing their car? The only way you could perform a "real world test", to the safety of any seats would be to recreate a 24g impact. If anyone would like to crash his car into a wall at over 160mph be my guest. Otherwise there is no other form of "real world testing" that would even begin to come close to relevant. And if that’s the way something needs to be tested I’m sure wouldn’t want to be in one to test it. Is there something I’m missing here?

An integrated part of vehicle safety may have been a poor choice of words. Sure the seat has to keep you positioned so the rest of the safety devices can work properly, however there are no specific test done to determine crush strength, seat back shear, or recliner holding abilities (believe me I change A LOT of these).

"Crush strength" as you put it is not an important factor on a seat. Maybe I wasn’t clear but I want to be clear on why I stated what the construction of the seat is made out of. Seats are not made to absorb any type of "crush" as you call it. Good seats are made to absorb impact inertia and direct it way from your body. Good seats don’t not crush, nor do they collapse. "seat back shear" I have no idea what that is? What does that mean? In regards to recliner holding abilities. Good seat recliners are tested, on a sled, and must withstand a minimum of a 24g impact. The human body cannot take more then 16g's, and a good seat would far exceed safety standards. If you ask any good seat maufacture they would all tell you the same thing.

The NASCRAP style seats are a result of too many head/neck injuries; combined with the HANS device (I can’t see, I can’t see) they limit head movement in a collision.

Personally I think HANS is absolute a great protective piece of equipment, like a helmet or roll bar. Drivers from Formula 1, WRC, and NASCAR all use the device and many and endorse it! One pirme example of someone who didn't like it becuase he felt it limited head movement was Earnhardt Sr. But maybe that’s why he’s dead.. but thats a whole other topic I don't want to get into. I think if you ever used a HANS device maybe you would have a different opinion.

Yes, I suppose the seat is a part of the overall safety of the vehicle but only in the capacity that it needs to keep you from moving rearward so the belts can do their job. A more primary function of the seat is to provide for lateral stability of your body rather than rely on the belts so you can concentrate on driving. I say any seat that keeps me positioned properly is a good seat; I don’t need the gov’t to do any half ass tests to tell me whether or no it works.

I don't know about that the primary function is to provided lateral stability? I would that a good seats primary function are made to absorb impact inertia. If you where in a collision with only a cage, sitting on the floor, with belts. All impact inertia would be transferred directly into your body causing huge internal organ damage. Good seats are NOT just to hold you in place while driving. Although they do support you, and are made that way, the number on purpose is to protect. All of our composite seats flex, and move, and where engineered at certain tolerances, all to direct inertia away from your body.

I say any seat that keeps me positioned properly is a good seat; I don't need the gov't to do any half ass tests to tell me whether or no it works..

You say you “don’t need the gov’t to do any half ass tests to tell me whether or no it works.” If you don’t care what the government says then that’s your choice and that’s fine. I mean trying to use any drug to treat any of your future sickness would be ok? I guess? And I guess the FDA approval on any medications that you might need in the future wouldn’t matter. For me I wouldn’t take anything non-FDA approved.
Also if you don’t like government standards / crap the FIA is not a government agency and they do test seats its called Closed Car Occupant Safety.. I would rather buy something that is tested half ass then not tested at all.



But back to my point on poorly built seats.

You could just as easily set your belts to hold you in place sitting on the floor and in a properly design cage with good 5 points you would be fine albeit a bit bruised on your hind quarters after an accident.

Why not sit on a milk carton crate with a full cage and belts? Seems pointless to me. Again good seats are made to absorb impact inertia. If you where in a collision with only a cage, sitting on the floor, with belts. All impact inertia would be transferred directly into your body causing huge internal organ damage. Well made seats are NOT just to hold you in place while driving. Although they do support you, and they make them that way, the number one purpose of a good seat manufacture is to protect the driver! All good composite seats flex, and move, and where engineered at certain tolerances, all to direct inertia away from your body.

I think another good thing to think about is post that USAZRI posted

Guess I have to be the one to ask the question but what's the catch on these seats? The price of $219 each is hard to believe.

That’s a retail price of $219 bucks. Hum? Lets think about that? Wholesale is about 50% of that and manufacturing is about 50% of that. Hum a $50 dollar seat and that’s not even including the shipping that’s part of that? What is that seat really worth? Gee I wonder what kinda of safety measures went into that seat, made by that overworked person in china making 50 cents a day? Like the saying goes don’t judge a book by its cover. Just because it looks good don’t mean its good. Now I’m not saying to spend a 1k or even $500 bucks on a seats, but my original point is safety, as you stated with safety and having a roll bar. Point is… looking cool and saving money is not worth more then spending a bit more and being safe if you ask me. You could also say why get rid of a nice OEM seat made in the USA and replace it with something made in china weights more?

Again something I think even one should thing about b4 buying an aftermarket seat.

[harshman]

i like my seats. got 'em from jegs - they are comfy.

[Steve1968LS2]

We got a set of the Summit seats in for Johnny's G28 project.. they look pretty good for the money.. and they sure as hell were cheaper than my $2000 worth of Recaros.. are my Recaros 5 times better? I don't know but I do know they won't snap in half or tear off the rails in a bad accident.

But Maveric is right.. All OEM and most higher end seats have to pass rigourous testing to make sure they can hold up to a bad collision. This testing is expensive and is reflected in the price of an "expensive" seat.. hey somebody has to pay. I seriously doubt that a inexpensive seat from Jegs, Summit or APC has had this same testing. That does not mean that the seat will fail in a bad accident but it does mean that you don't KNOW if it will fail or not.. So when you pay more for seats you are buying more "peace of mind". Well your buying safety and features/styling.. and better materials..

It's sort of a hard call without data.. the summit/jegs seats sure do look nice and I am sure they would ok in a minor accident but as for the rest...

And yes.. the seat is as important as safety belts in working to keep you alive in an accident.. the belt would be meaningless if the seat tore away from it's frame in a collision.

Cavea't Emptor I guess

[Rick Dorion]

Steve, how about a destructive seat evaluation for a future issue?

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve, how about a destructive seat evaluation for a future issue?

No thanks.. since I'm the FNG I would get the crash-test-dummy duty..

Although I will touch on this when I do my article on safety (an often overlooked component)..

I do have to be a bit careful and most of all fair to those that advertise..

[JMarsa]

Asked if there was any certification on those seats. After checking the rep said they had "no rating".

--JMarsa

[dennis68]

Well this is one of those threads that aren’t really going to change any minds so it's going nowhere. I could dig for hours about the hundreds of thousands of "rigorous government tested items" that have been recalled by a more stringent authority (sometimes even by themselves) be it food, drugs or cars/parts. I just don't care enough to prove a point. I’ll stick with the lower price seats thanks.

Just a point about how pricing affects safety...those NASCRAP seats you spoke of earlier that are so important toward the safety of the car; the higher end Kirkley (a huge name in roundy-round seats) are only 299/ea. Should they be avoided because they are inexpensive compared to Recaro, Sparco or whatever? Just a question.

Last point, are you quite sure the government requirement for recliners is 24g's , that’s huge (to put that in perspective, a Top Fuel car launches at 8g and causes momentary black out)? The reason I ask is that I have broken recliners in fairly new cars by pressing against the floor and leaning back in the seats (don't ask). I also have a pretty fat customer that breaks his recliner on his 2001 Intrepid about 2X a year.

[USAZR1]

Since we seem to have Maverick all stirred up,I just have to ask. "Are the seats in your car approved by all the various governmental agencies?" Inquiring minds want to know. However,I'll buy you a rollbar if you'll buy me a nice pair of seats. Deal? j/k

[Maverick Man]

Well this is one of those threads that aren’t really going to change any minds so it's going nowhere. I could dig for hours about the hundreds of thousands of "rigorous government tested items" that have been recalled by a more stringent authority (sometimes even by themselves) be it food, drugs or cars/parts. I just don't care enough to prove a point. I’ll stick with the lower price seats thanks.

Agreed you don’t care, i'm not gonna argue there. End of story. I won’t bring it up again. However as you noticed people at least that have read this thread are bit more informed, not to meantion that minds have changed (maybe not yours) becuase its seems already people have either called or are looking into what the facts are. I’m just trying to state a fact rather then an opinion.

Just a point about how pricing affects safety...those NASCRAP seats you spoke of earlier that are so important toward the safety of the car; the higher end Kirkley (a huge name in roundy-round seats) are only 299/ea. Should they be avoided because they are inexpensive compared to Recaro, Sparco or whatever? Just a question.

The point was safety not price. And the comparison was between a tested seat vs. a non-tested seat. It just happens to be that seats mentioned in this post had a low price… hense the word cheap. Besides I don’t see anything wrong with a Krikey seat besides the fact that I don’t think you want to be stuck in traffic in one.

Last point, are you quite sure the government requirement for recliners is 24g's , that’s huge (to put that in perspective, a Top Fuel car launches at 8g and causes momentary black out)? The reason I ask is that I have broken recliners in fairly new cars by pressing against the floor and leaning back in the seats (don't ask). I also have a pretty fat customer that breaks his recliner on his 2001 Intrepid about 2X a year.

Oh yes I’m quite sure. I find out information first before I open my big mouth. And a big mouth it is. This information came right from two after market seat manufactures that have to meet these requirements. If you don’t believe me call sparco, momo, recaro and even the government or FIA itsself and ask for yourself. But then again like you said you don't care, so i guess it wouldn't mean anything to you? However I don’t know how it can get any more sure then that.

Infact its right here in black and white for cobra seats

http://www.subesports.com/products/?...80&cat=Seating

hope that answers any doubts.

Since we seem to have Maverick all stirred up,I just have to ask. "Are the seats in your car approved by all the various governmental agencies?" Inquiring minds want to know. However,I'll buy you a rollbar if you'll buy me a nice pair of seats. Deal? j/k

Dennis,I think I'll go with you on this one.

That’s the Maverick is "roulded up!" But yep my seats are FIA.. see for you’re yourself. http://www.subesports.com/products/?...80&cat=Seating

please note I didn’t say that a seat had to pass ALL various agencies to be a good seat. I think FIA does a fine job of that. not to mention the SFI on the belts.

Now lets talk about if the car will pass NHRA tech… uh oh? probably not.

So do I get to choose the type of roll bar I put in my car if I buy you seats? And they don’t need to meet FIA standards correct. if so you got a deal! j/k

[USAZR1]

Uhhh,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,no!

[Steve1968LS2]

I like waffles.. with syurp...

[dennis68]

French toast please....lots of butter

[F70t/a]

I had kirkey drag seats in a 79 toyota wagon and I loved the seats.

[1976SR71]

I would like to see how well those fancy expesive seats with no roll bar...
Compare to a pair of less expensive ones with a roll bar. (That was bought with the money saved)
In a roll over crash ????

[Maverick Man]

I would like to see how well those fancy expesive seats with no roll bar...
Compare to a pair of less expensive ones with a roll bar. (That was bought with the money saved)
In a roll over crash ????

maybe steve can test that! ;)

i noticed in your 76 you don't have a roll bar in your car either for proabally the same reason i don't at this time as well. i hope you can understand that. (btw nice to see something differant.. your car that is :icon996: ) anyways if you do have one in some other car i'm sure you car didn't have one at one point in time or another. a car is never finshed wouldn't you say?

btw looks like you own sparco seats... might i ask the reason why you got them instead of another choice?

then again you brought up a good point.. how about this? i'd like to see how non-FIA seat vs a one that isn't FIA in a front end collision into a wall at over 100mph while another car side impacts it. steve you up to the test?

as for the butter on the pancakes.... i would suggest they might as well taste better plain especially when cats got your tounge. its funny when facts are so evedent. but whatever i'm wrong, your right.

i have really come to the conclusion about suggesting something in the welfare of others... only suggestion about a fact thats it people coundn't care less... but you know, i don't care now. get whatever makes you happy dude!

[MangeMD]

I like cheese.

[Nicks67GTO]

Id like to see anyone who has personally survived a crash into a wall going 100 MPH,. and getting the crap end of the T bone at the same time!!!! in a sparco seat OR otherwise....Im not disagreeing with you at all. Im sure the more expensive seats are much better quality/ and much more rigid, but damn man 100 MPH. AND a T bone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If anything holds up to that id bow down....

[Maverick Man]

Id like to see anyone who has personally survived a crash into a wall going 100 MPH,. and getting the crap end of the T bone at the same time!!!! in a sparco seat OR otherwise....Im not disagreeing with you at all. Im sure the more expensive seats are much better quality/ and much more rigid, but damn man 100 MPH. AND a T bone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If anything holds up to that id bow down....

NASCAR? but for the avg joe blow... your right good point! but then again how many of the avg person actually rolls over a car? never the less any of you guys?

but gald at least someone here see the point of a better bulid seat.

bottom line is both are safety items both will help you out in any which way.. again back to my orginal point. better safe then sorry. man, now i feel like bringing up safety on baby safety seats now. please someone get me started! :rolleyes5 unbuttered pancakes anyone?

[MickyT]

I think there are lots of great seats in late model cars that work well without any safety concerns. I bought a set of as new 2004 Honda Accord black leather front buckets that are heated and powered for $550.00 Canadian or about $420 US. Looking around I see lots of options for seats in late model cars that would look great in a PT. Just a thought

[USAZR1]

There are a lot of great seats out there to be had. Personally,I really like the C4 Corvette Sport seats like the ones that came in both my ZR-1's. But,it's a PIA to add harness slots and most oem seats are kinda heavy,too.