Best Bang for the Buck on a Driver

[YankeeWhite]

I've been reading and searching now I'm asking.
I've got a bone stock '69 Camaro with drum brakes. I'm building a fair weather driver and it won't see a track. I want it to handle and I want to upgrade to some nice discs. I don't have wheels or any other parts. It sits just like it left the factory. It will have a mild small block with Vortecs heads. I'd like it to sit lower.
So, what would you all sugest? I don't think I would gain anything buy getting a new subframe or a coil over conversion.
I'm thinking of getting the Touring Classics brakes and maybe the DSE upper arms.
Would I be better off with the ATS spindle over tubular upper arms? Which would give me the best improvement for the money?
Maybe DSE springs, and rebuild the rest, and a bigger sway bar. Maybe the ATS steering box, it is manual right now.
Any suggestions? I really want to do it all at once, and do it right the first time.
Sorry for all the questions. Thanks, James
After more reading it seems like I should forget using new tubular arms, instead get del a lum bushings, the ATS spindle and call it a day.

[baz67]

After more reading it seems like I should forget using new tubular arms, instead get del a lum bushings, the ATS spindle and call it a day.

For some good street driving that is a good package. Do not forget the lowering springs, better shocks and larger sway-bar.

[wendell]

Hard to suggest a larger sway bar with out knowing the spring rates first. Talk with your spring supplier and see what they suggests.

Darwin might say the problem with the gene pool it that there IS a life guard.

[YankeeWhite]

Knowing not to bother with tubular arms sure saves some cash. I'll have to search and find out what brand of springs and sway bars guys like. Bilstien or Koni shocks should be a safe bet too.

[rocketrod]

For a street car the Hotchkis stuff is pretty good and easier on the pocket book. Combined with a quick ratio gear box, good tires, discs brakes and a replace existing ball joints, tie rod end, etc as needed and you will be pretty happy. Other things to consider would be subframe connectors, solid body mounts........

[YankeeWhite]

At this time I'm thinking of getting the ATS spindles and steering box, touring classics brakes, Hotchkiss TVS, their Bilsteins, a quality rebuild of all the stock parts, some brand of sub frame connectors, and who knows what for wheels and tires, 17" or 18", with a leaning towards 18".
With all of these parts I should be knocked out for a street car, especially since my best handling car to date is a '64 Impala with polygraphite bushings, 1" sway bar, Mullings 605 box, C4 front discs, and 17" Eagles on 255R50 BF Goodrich tires front and rear.
Its better than stock but no Camaro for sure.

[NvrDun71]

At this time I'm thinking of getting the ATS spindles and steering box, touring classics brakes, Hotchkiss TVS, their Bilsteins, a quality rebuild of all the stock parts, some brand of sub frame connectors, and who knows what for wheels and tires, 17" or 18", with a leaning towards 18".

Sounds like a good setup...maybe add the upper and lower DelALum bushing kits from Global West to round out the package

[YankeeWhite]

Delalums for sure. I have polys on the Impala and I hate them. Maybe I have been unlucky, but they squeak too much even with that messy lube all over everything.

[rocketrod]

Delalums for sure. I have polys on the Impala and I hate them. Maybe I have been unlucky, but they squeak too much even with that messy lube all over everything.

I saw these on eBay.

http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZhypertsi

[NvrDun71]

I saw these on eBay.

http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZhypertsi

Damn thats a good deal....I should have cked Ebay before I bought mine

[baz67]

I have a new set of UCA del-a-lum bushings that I do not need. I guess I could sell them. YankeeWhite let me know if you are intrested.

[YankeeWhite]

That is cheap, and the part numbers are the same, is there a reason he is calling them delrins? Is that what the insert is made of?

[NvrDun71]

is there a reason he is calling them delrins? Is that what the insert is made of?

Yes, Delrin Plastic

[Marcus SC&C]

Yankee you`ve got a pretty good start going there. Del-a-lums are a top choice especially for the weight bearing lower arms. Tubular lowers won`t do anything for your application nor will coilovers so long as you choose your springs and shocks well in the 1st place. Hotchkis springs and their Bilstein shocks will work well.
Hang loose on swaybar(s) until you`ve put the rest of the package together and put some miles on the car. Swaybars are a tuning aid and you won`t know for sure what the car and your driving style really wants until you try it!
Upper A arms are a tricky subject. The arm by themselves do not and cannot make a meaningful change in geometry. BUT...(heh there`s always a but isn`t there?) they`re sometimes necessary to make up for changes in effective spindle height or to get decent modern alignment specs with lowered ride heights etc. That WILL make a meaningful difference in how the car handles and drives. The AFX tall spindles are great pieces. We have some of the very first ones and have been doing testing with ATS for some time now. Their extra height combined with a lowered ride height will require either offset shafts or shorter upper arms to get any kind of decent alignment specs out of the car. The upper ball joint will also be much closer to the end of it`s travel at ride height than design specs and could bind up at full bump. Even if you use offset shafts you may have to compromise the alignment some. It varies a LOT car to car and even side to side on the same car. That`s why we favor adj. tubular upper arms. No matter what changes we make we can achieve *exactly* the alignment we want...on both sides...everytime. We even carry a package that bundles the tall AFX spindles,hub bearing assys. and specific adj. upper arms. Bear in mind that the AFX spindles require 13" C5 brakes (at least) and 17" or larger wheels. You can achieve really good results with stock spindles too but you have to make some vertical geometry changes to correct the lousy factory geometry. You mentioned your other hotrod the `64 Impala is no `69 Camaro..that`s exactly right. The Impala`s suspension geometry is much better! You can fix a lot of the problem with things like the G mod,our Street Comp tall ball joint packages or the AFX or other tall spindles. Out of those the G mod is the cheapest (free) but although it helps it`s not a complete solution. You can combine it with out SC Stage 1 or 2 and get some serious geometry/performance gains or you can use the tall spindles or our new Stage 2-Plus (not even on the site yet) and you don`t need to do the G mod. Some of the tall spindles (AFX for one) have steering (bumpsteer) improvement built in. We use tall tie rod ends to make the same gains. The factory bumpsteer is bad so you want to do somethign to fix it one way or another.
There`s a lot of different ways to skin this cat! The main things to remember are to replace anything that`s worn,do something to really correct the poor geometry and bumpsteer,good performance rate springs and GOOD shocks (Bilstein or Koni both good choices) and a good performance alignment (the stock specs would be great for a bread truck). Oh and if you don`t already have a good set of subframe connectors installed put those toward the top of that list too! Mark SC&C

[YankeeWhite]

Marcus and everyone else, thanks for the great information. I'm learning a lot and saving some money too! As soon as I get my 63 Scout back together, the Camaro subframe is coming out for the powder painter and I'll start buying the good stuff. Too many projects.