Any electrical engineers or the like?

[THX 138]

somethings been bugging me the last few days. We know that change in magnetic polarity induces an electical current, but where do those electrons come from if they are not attached to the ground/earth? Do you have to have a battery? Old cars and didn't have batteries right? they just had a hand crank to start and a magneto to fire the spark plugs right?

[alcino]

I'm an EE. I will give the quick and easy to digest answer.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, but it can be converted. When you rotate a magnet, you are using kinetic energy to move it(cranking the engine by hand). This kinetic energy can be converted to electrical energy by taking advantage of the properties of electromagnetism(thats where the electons come from).

[MoeBawlz]

Kind of on the same note I had a discussion with an EE today about the electron theory, conventional vs. the automotive world... negative to positive or positive to negative. While in this discussion we talked about alternators and how the current flow of AC current changes to DC using the rectifier (diodes) and how the current flow in the stator changes as the rotor moves past it. While discussing this I drew up a diagram of the alternator and rectifier and we got into a whole hoopwah about negative to positive theory and in the auto world positive to negative and how it should and shouldnt work. If you have any clear ways of describing alternator operations using postive to negative theory could you please share.

[THX 138]

I'm an EE. I will give the quick and easy to digest answer.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, but it can be converted. When you rotate a magnet, you are using kinetic energy to move it(cranking the engine by hand). This kinetic energy can be converted to electrical energy by taking advantage of the properties of electromagnetism(thats where the electons come from).

I'm looking for more than quick and easy answer. I'm a manufacturing engineer so I know the theory and have done all the electicity and magnatism physics labs like 10 years ago, but where do the electrons come from when not connected to the ground? from all my thinking I have to imagine there would have to be some battery or sacrificial element somewhere.

[alcino]

The electrons were always there. Everything is made up of atoms and atoms have electrons. So using Faraday's Law. An electric current(moving electrons) can be produced by a changing magnetic field. So the kinetic energy(something spinning) in the magnetic field is exciting the electrons and moving them in a direction to create current. The current squared times resistance of the sparkplugs is what is firing them up.

You don't need a ground per say, but you do need to "complete the circuit" for current to flow. A battery is not needed for producing current.

If my words don't help here is a good picture.

[zbugger]

I'm an EE.

I don't believe you. I think you just stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Oh, and you shold know by now that there is NEVER a quick and easy answer.....

[rolltide]

Dirt simple...

Moving a conductor through a magnetic field causes the electrons to gang up on one side of the material creating a difference of potential (voltage). If there is a path from one end of the conductor to the other, voila, the electrons will move (current) to try to reach a steady state.

The electrons were there all along (like he said). But because of their negative charge, they were moved to one side of the playing field by the external magnetic field.

[Jim Nilsen]

Think about this. If clouds moving over the earth can build up a static charge that create a lightning bolt that has enough voltage to do the kind of damage they do and the theory of over 1 million volts can be transfered to the ground or object that is chosen to be the ground. Why then wouldn't a moving vehicle be able to create the same static charge as it passes through the air and over the ground and create enough energy to help power it? I know about the theories against perpetual motion but this is not what mother nature has proven to us. Lightning and electrical energy have been around since the beginning of time as we understand it and if that isn't perpetual what is? When the earth stops turning the power will stop and as long as it is we should in theory be able to have it.
I was once told that we don't really understand what electricity is but rather what we believe is going on and that we only harness it. The person that really has the answer to the question you have asked will IMHO be the one who finally brings us perpetual energy for the cost of the materials and the way they are arranged to create it and the rest will go on forever as long as you don't stop it. In my theory of it all ,as long as the wind is blowing in your backyard you should we should have the ability to create power from it statically.

I am by no means an EE and believe it won't be someone who is that finally uncovers the true secret. The answer will be outside of the box so to speak and the teachings we have inside the box will keep us stuck where we are.

Jim Nilsen

[THX 138]

Dirt simple...

Moving a conductor through a magnetic field causes the electrons to gang up on one side of the material creating a difference of potential (voltage). If there is a path from one end of the conductor to the other, voila, the electrons will move (current) to try to reach a steady state.

The electrons were there all along (like he said). But because of their negative charge, they were moved to one side of the playing field by the external magnetic field.

hmm ok. that makes sense. So the changing magnetic field is like stirring the pot of electrons to do what you want.