a thought occured to me

[JLM]

many of thepopular PT cars that are being worked over these days (especially camaros) tend to be pretty heavy in the nose. I think Steve1969LS1 aid it right about there being something to having a bit less power but less weight and better distribution. It got me thinking.

What about doing a build with a high powered Supra or Skyline engine? You'd undoubtedly loose quite a bit of nose weight over a heavy iron block up front (maybe even over LS1, though I couldn't know for sure). Not only that, but the cool factor would be there as well. The 2JZGTE and RB26DETT have more than proven themselves to be worthy motors, why not adapt one to a PT car?

Thoughts?

[Ralph LoGrasso]

I know nothing about Supras other than the fact that the only ones I've seen making big power are turbo either single or twin, and they're really expensive cars to modify. I'd bet by the time you figure in the weight of the turbo(s) and plumbing, you could have built a 425rwhp (500crankhp) LS1 that will make great power, and be pretty light (possibly lighter). You could probably do the LS1 build for around $6k starting with a pull-out motor.

[jp455]

...I forget if it was in the old board or this one, but this topic has been discussed very extensively. It has gone from a turbo half a hemi, to buick V6s, and everyhting in between. I think soemone even suggested a wankel once!

It does seem like a very valid concept, but I guess we won't know for sure till someone tries it! Would love to see something like this though, with whatever powerplant!


manuel scettri

[Steve1968LS2]

Yep.. what car is the better performer? a 600hp big block 69 Camaro or a 500hp LS1 Camaro?

What is the weight difference between the two? How much more hp do you need to move that additional mass?

How much extra brakes do you need to stop the extra mass?

How much does the extra mass effect handling?

I love big blocks.. but they are not the best option for g-Machines.. Sometimes less is more..

[Steve1968LS2]

Oh, gonna weight the 68 with the big block and get how the weight is distributed percentage wise.. then weigh it with the LS2.

Ive always been curious about it..

[DeepBlue68]

I dunno, in some way it would almost seem sacreligious to put a Toyota motor into a classic American muscle car. I agree it would be cool to see how it would perform, and the unique factor would be very high, but I wouldn't want that motor in my car. It wouldn't be right for a 68 Camaro to sound like an import IMO.

[Steve1968LS2]

Also, the work involved to put a weird motor in a classic would be huge.. not to mention what it would do to resale value..

But the concept is cool.. Ive always thought a turbo V6 motor from a GN would be killer in a first gen.

[formula]

i always wanted to build up one of the old OHC v-6 1st gen camaros for pretty much that reason. i think with todays tech you could make a nasty track car out of one...

[chicane67]

>>>> 4 2 7 cid LS6 <<<<

You got your cubes and you got your light weight balance all in one convient package.

[jp455]

...I was looking into making a '93 RX7 with an LS. This combo has been weighed and they both actually end up weighin the same! True, the wankel is way, WAY smaller than the LS, but all the cast iron turbo, and manifold, plus intercooler end up adding a bunch of weight.
One nice thing about putting a wankel in though is that its so small that it could be place way back in the engine bay. You would probably end up with several inches between the wheel centerline and the front of the engine...without chopping the firewall.

manuel scettri

[JLM]

i always wanted to build up one of the old OHC v-6 1st gen camaros for pretty much that reason. i think with todays tech you could make a nasty track car out of one...

I think this would be a way to go. I've even thought about picking up a poncho OHC I6 from the sprint cars. I'm sure somebody has got to make an aluminum head for that engine. With the amount of space you'd save it would be cake to fab up a small turbo and have a good powerplant that's different and saves weight.

Though something leads me to believe that the aluminum block v8's are still going to be lighter than an iron block I6, especially given the weight of turbo's, piping, intercooler etc. I think it would still be cool though.

[TLWiltman]

To me, it almost seems that the engine is a pretty silly place to try to save weight. That being said, I'm not a proponent of cast-iron heads and the like. It's just that... If you want the power of a big-block, the weight difference can be made up elsewhere. I guess my thought is... The big block carries a certain cost (extra weight) and a certain benefit (generally more CID and more power). I'd just think about taking the extra pounds from someplace that does nothing for you (ie; C/F hood vs steel, Lighter weight subframe vs. modified stock, manual brakes vs power, etc...) or taking weight from the designed envelope (alum. block/heads vs cast iron for example) before accepting the loss of displacement/torque. Granted, the argument could change. If I were given the choice of a 502/502, or a 500hp 355, I'd take the SB every time for road racing... same power, less weight. The argument gets cloudy when I'm trying to decide between a 537hp SB (1.5 hp/ci from a 358) or an 858hp BB (1.5 hp/ci from a 572). I think I'd be willing to try making some other changes instead of losing 321hp.

It could be said that my opinion falls on it's behind when $$ become an object. It probably does... to an extent. In my opinion, the concept still applies, but the economics of finding every last pound are pretty poor, dollars and cents wise.

[68LSS1]

...I was looking into making a '93 RX7 with an LS. This combo has been weighed and they both actually end up weighin the same! True, the wankel is way, WAY smaller than the LS, but all the cast iron turbo, and manifold, plus intercooler end up adding a bunch of weight.

manuel scettri

I'm pretty sure from posts on LS1tech from the guys who have done the RX7 LS1 conversion, the front end sits up when done. They may weigh the same but it's distributed differently, actually better.

[CDJr]

I dunno, in some way it would almost seem sacreligious to put a Toyota motor into a classic American muscle car. I agree it would be cool to see how it would perform, and the unique factor would be very high, but I wouldn't want that motor in my car. It wouldn't be right for a 68 Camaro to sound like an import IMO.

"Youre rice-burner sounds like a bumblebee to me!"
I hafta roll with DeepBlue on this one...I wouldnt want my Firebird sounding like a bumblebee either.

[jeffandre]

A 4.3 aluminum V6 would lessen the front end weight, plus when you consider the fact that if this motor were to be moved back some it could sit behind the frame crossmember. Then again, it would probably cost as much as the LS1 when you do the work to get the power up there, so when costs are considered it may be better to go the LS1 (or similar) route and just try to move it back as much as possible.

I drove my 71 Camaro without the front end on it and it was incredible, so I will do everything in my power to reduce the weight at least that amount, maybe a bit more.

[slow4dr]

Back from the dead. Interesting topic and some interesting views.

Here are some pics of my 63 Nova, yep you guessed it powered by a 2JZGTE. I have no clue what the engine weighs with turbo/manifold etc but it has to be pretty close to an N/A LSx.



Here is a video of a Supra with a 76mm turbo and a 4" exhaust. I think it sounds pretty good. http://www.madbeems.com/BrettSupra.wmv

[F70t/a]

Badass mofo man!!!

[J2speedandcustom]

Here is what my supra sounds like - Video

I would think a buick V6 or one of the new I-6's that were in the trailblazers would be a better fit. I'm with chicane on this an aluminum 427 would be the cats pajamas...

[Rubes]

I'm currently building a Buick turbo V6 for one of my Malibu wagons. Then hopefully an SC&C G5 package

[Steve Firebird]

I have to say this topic is a good example of why I like this site so much. You guys can disagree but most will keep an open mind on stuff. Would I want a turbo charged 6 in my 68 NO WAY but it is still a neat idea and I would like to see one. There is a company called Primatch Motorsports International working on an line of HP parts for the pontiac OHC 6 to include stroker kits and forced induction kits and a DOHC aluminum head for it as well. Check it out at www.primatechmotorsports.com