Subframe "exchange" question

[vintageracer]

I was at the JY looking at the diamonds in the rough. I know that a late "metric" 78-81 F body subframe will bolt up to a 1969 Camaro/Firebird. Dimensionally the smaller crossmember (the one that makes sway bar installation a pain in ass) between the front crossmember and the radiator support is missing on this late subframe, the steering "front steer" instead of "rear steer" and the radiator support mounts are offset from the stock mounting of a first gen F body.

I know these subframes will bolt on a 1st gen F body and can be made to work with movement of the radiator support mounts, steering shaft modification and bumper bracket modification as a friend of mine did this years ago on his 1st gen 69 Firebird. Given this late "metric" subframe has taller spindles, better brakes, better suspension geometry with the taller spindles etc, this should be a good inexpensive upgrade to a first generation F body for those on a budget. I understand the last subframe 78-81 or metric is the one to use for this change. They are also VERY cheap at the JY. The best ones are off a WS-6 T/A.

How about some analysis as to why THIS IS or IS NOT worth the time to make this modification for those on a budget looking for a front suspension/subframe upgrade???

Opinions???

[Lowend]

Man - that is a lot of work compared to a SS Brakes kit and a Upper a-arm mount Guldstrand Mod

[Kenova]

Man - that is a lot of work compared to a SS Brakes kit and a Upper a-arm mount Guldstrand Mod

You're probably right, but I believe the second gen sub frame ultimately has the higher potential. Every now and then the thought of doing the same to my '71 Nova crosses my mind.
The problem I have is the lack of solid information on the swap. Every time it's discussed you have people who say it's a piece of cake to do, and others who say it isn't worth the trouble. I would like to hear someone who has actually done it describe exactly what has to be done without some of the vagueness and generalities I usually see.
Ken

[indyjps]

id be very interested to see some actual data on this also. a friend of mine just bought a nova and has more time than funds so it may be a cost effective way to get a better handling suspension with disk brakes under his car than upgrading everthing.

[Kenova]

Surely with the site's membership as large as it is, somebody must have some solid info!
Anybody?
Ken

[vintageracer]

Anybody have any SOLID information concerning this question? Not looking for opinions, just real world install/modification information and results.

[rocketman]

i can tell you the later sub frames are wider,i am thinking 3 inchs.

[David Pozzi]

Second gen subs are more narrow inside to inside rail in the area where the headers are. I installed a set on my wife's 73 Camaro and it was a snug fit.
Second gen subs have more torsional flex according to D!ck Guldstrand. probably due to the thinner main crossmember and lack of a front crossmember at all.
There is a member of Team Camaro who posted pics of the swap. I think it was in the bench racing section.

[zman1969]

it sure isnt a "bolt in" ! mounts would need to be moved around - few have tried less have completed it - would of been a popular swap long time ago if it was a bolt in -

[hssss]

One big improvement would be to get rid of the rear steer.