Suggestions on Next step?

[rlovell383]

Hi all this is my first post on this site. Iv'e learned alot just reading the past posts. Curious if you have thoughts on my next upgrade. My goal is optmal steet handling with ocassional AX. Currently My 67 Camaro has KYB shocks, poly bushings, Multi leaf rear, PST dropped front springs. 1 1/8 front, 7/8 rear bars. Frame connectors. 245 60 15 / 275 60 15 BFG Tires. CalTracs(backed off for no binding). I really like the SCandC upper arms. Would it be better to go with those and the G mod, or the arms and the taller BJs? I've read that the G mod helps with anti dive, and not to sound ignorant, but I've seen my dad drive my car and under max braking (wilwood front discs w/garage fabbed hydroboost) the nose drops maybe and inch!?!?! Bottom line- I just want to most improvement for the least amount of money. I'm po.

Thanks, Randy

[Lowend]

Well, from a parts standpoint, the G-mod is pretty much free so I would put that on the top of the list.
I would say after the G-mond that your most important step would be solid subframe bushings. The f-body sits on rubber cushions between the subframe and the unibody. Over 30+ years those rubber bushings turn to dust and the body squirms around on the frame. You can have all the cool suspension stuff in the world but if the frame is displacing the car will not be consistant. Solid bushings prevent the undwanted movement.
Its a big job, but you only need about $100 in parts and its well worth it.

[PTAddict]

I really like the SCandC upper arms. Would it be better to go with those and the G mod, or the arms and the taller BJs?

Since both approaches are designed to do similar things, that's not an easy call to make without having detailed analysis done on something like WinGeo. I wouldn't worry about the anti-dive as much as getting roll center height right, limiting roll center migration and side scrub, reducing bump steer, keeping FVSA long enough. Since you're looking at the arms from scandc anyway, call up Marcus and ask him. In my personal experience, he won't sell you things that you don't need or won't work.

[red67camaro]

My '67 is set up very close you yours. I recently installed the A-arms from SC&C along with the G-mod. I also got the taller ball joints. I'm currently running 245/50-16 tires on 16X8 wheels with 5" backspacing on the front. The 5" backspacing worked well with the stock arms but will not work with the new arms and taller ball joints. 4 1/4" backspacing will work fine. I'm running stock ball joints until I get some new wheels.

I agree with the advice about giving Marcus at SC&C a call. I had a couple conversations with him. He's a nice guy and was very helpful. You will find it to be time well spent.

With the current mods, I think the sway bars (1 1/8" front, 7/8" rear) may be too stiff. Right now my car has almost no body roll. One thing the G-mod does is in addition to improving the camber curve is to raise the front roll center. This means that the center of gravity has less leverage on the roll center which increases roll stiffness. I may end up with smaller bars but I'm going to replace the wheels and install the tall ball joints and give it a try before worrying about it too much.

[zbugger]

With the current mods, I think the sway bars (1 1/8" front, 7/8" rear) may be too stiff. Right now my car has almost no body roll. One thing the G-mod does is in addition to improving the camber curve is to raise the front roll center. This means that the center of gravity has less leverage on the roll center which increases roll stiffness. I may end up with smaller bars but I'm going to replace the wheels and install the tall ball joints and give it a try before worrying about it too much.

Try just removing the rear bar. See how that works out.

[red67camaro]

Thanks for the suggestion.

This is somethig I will definitely do, but the ball joints will have an effect so I'll resolve the wheel issue and install the ball joints first.

The rear wheels I'm running are the same as the front (IROC wheels) as well as tire size except for backspacing. This is the reason I know 4 1/4" backspacing will work on the front. Over the weekend I borrowed two wheels from my daughter's S-10 to put on the rear and moved the rear wheels to the front (the 5" backspacing of the front wheels will not work on the rear) and took it for a drive. It looked plenty funky, but was good for a test. I hit every bump, pothole, and railroad crossing I could find. There were some rubbing issues while turning and when bottomed out (245/50-16), but now I know what will or won't work.

[rlovell383]

Thanks guys,

When i first built the car i tried it without the rear bar and it seemed to understeer a bit. Since i installed the rear bar now it oversteers a bit, but i like it better that way, since im not road racing it high speed, just AX. I figure when i go with the arms/g mod i will probably end up without the rear bar. Also, I do have poly subframe bushings when i put in the subframe connectors. I could feel a BIG difference with them. Without them when I went over certain bumps, i could feel the body flexing on the frame, through the gas pedal!

So how did the scandc arms fit? Are they easy to adjust with the weight on the wheels? How do you like them in general? When you talked to marcus, he recomended the use of both the g mod and the tall ball joints? I'd like to see a camber gain curve for that. With a lot of extra caster(5-6 deg.) I wouldnt think you would need alot of negative camber gain. But what do I know.

Thakns again, Randy

[red67camaro]

The SC&C arms fit well with a couple of issues. One is the wheel backspacing already mentioned. By design these arms have no provision for a bump stop at full droop. I found that the arms will hit the frame before the suspension tops out. Marcus didn't feel that this would be a big issue particularly with typical performance lowering springs which will have lost a lot of rate by the time full droop is reached. I don't do any Duke boys manuevers and my car is definitely not wheelie prone.

Doing the G-mod by redrilling the holes will bring the a-arm shafts down into a curved area of the frame mounts. Even with the adjustable arms you will need to use a couple of alignment shims so the shafts will sit flat and tight on the studs. The shims closest to the frame will need to be shortened slightly. The arms adjust easily enough although I've had to at times lift the car slightly to make it easier. I lubed the threads with brake caliper grease before installing the arms. I would also like to see a camber curve graph with the tall ball joints versus the G-mod.

Marcus did recommend the taller ball joints in addition to the G-mod. He said they work well together. I'll find out after I get new wheels. One thing I realize I didn't make clear is that I only got the upper ball joints.